Organic 'has no health benefits'

[Gavin Scott]

The brand is owned by Monsanto - a food biotech company. Interestingly their website focusses on the benefits of their GM division which has, "decreased pesticide applications by 172,000 metric tons - equivalent to well over 23,700 London buses!"

that would be the GM crops that, if I'm not mistaken, only grow properly when used with their special fertiliser?

Well that would make sense from a money making perspective.

Lets face it, their apples may only grow in their fertiliser, but I can think of another Apple that does much the same thing.

There was a really interesting thing on BBC4 recently about food scientists.

*Creepy fact* Did you know Margaret Thatcher was on the team of food scientists who developed soft scoop ice cream?

Apparently she had some moral objection about the customer receiving less for their money (it was packed with air to make it less dense), but managed to reconcile her concerns when the company made large profits.

But I digress.

What, in essence, this programme showed was that a number of completely healthy food additives were demonised by the European Union's "E" numbering system - rather ironic, as the universal number system for Europe was supposed to make things more transparent. Each of the "E"s had to be tested etc, and it was hoped that it would be seen as a "stamp of approval" so you knew it was safe.

But it worked against them with the fussy brigade routinely lambasting food "packed with chemicals and E numbers".

I don't particularly want to eat "processed" food, but I guess when it comes to GM crops, or fortified breakfast cereal I'm not that concerned.

[Sput]

Sustainable? Only provided it's restricted to the well-off. Because they don't believe in pesticides their crop yields are lower, so it really takes more energy to farm less stuff. In that sense it'd be worse for the earth because it'd take more land, cause more runoff into rivers and presumably to generate enough fertiliser we'd need even more cattle belching methane into the atmosphere.

As discussed earlier in a much more interesting way, the genius of the organic movement is to exploit the public's deluded idea that somehow "common sense" is better than researching something and doing it clinically, and that if it's natural then it must be good for you. That's nature, home of such hits as Anthrax and the human that occasionally bites through the inside of its own face. The irony is that actual common sense (as opposed to "what you reckon") would tell you that's probably not a very sensible stance to take, but you can't trust those scientists with their "evidence" and their "the daily mail is not a scientific journal" ways (i nicked that from speak your branes).

The pinnacle of this must be the neal's yard sign I have to go past every day that reads "what CHEMICALS did you put on your skin today?". Take fertiliser: They think that "chemical" fertiliser = bad but various animal excretions = good when in reality it's all just nitrates. Damned chemicals. They'll poison us all! dihydrogen monoxide! Everybody panic! Suddenly having a chemical in a pure form is considered bad whereas having it in a shit-covered endotoxin-infested lump is lovely.

Onto GM food in this increasing rant...
The public misperception of GM food is, I think, "we don't know what the effect is" but ludicrously also "OMG GM TESTING IS EVIL" so that every time a company tries to find out what a GM crop behaves like, some moronic environmentalist goes and rolls around in the field. They're happy to wallow in ignorance because I suspect they realise they might well be proven wrong if any crop trials succeed. In fact, disease-resistant crops are the only way we can even hope to feed 7, 8, 9 Billion humans. But hey, so long as the protesters RECKON they're saving the earth, who cares in a few hundred million starve to death right?

Also: I think what hyma was referring to before about fertiliser is actually the talk about engineering crops that didn't create seeds so the farmer would be tied to the manufacturer each year, but that's pretty much what farmers do now. You couldn't make a plant work that differently to other plants for it not to be able to take up food. Don't get me wrong, I see how GM can be corrupted to exploit poor nations but the opportunity it offers is worth giving it a go.

That said, I do think there is exploitation going on, but at least at the moment it's exploitation of people who can afford organic foods. I won't judge you for eating organic stuff if you think it tastes better, but don't go claiming you're saving the world or that I'm killing myself when I munch down an onion.

This week, sput became James H and rambled incessantly.

[lukey]

Sput, may I touch you? Just once?

[Pete]

If pesticides improved the taste of the food would you still not buy non-organic?

You know, I possibly would. There's obv some chemicals that "improve" the taste of food, like MSG, which doesn't improve the taste of food, it just makes it more addictive then causes stomach problems. But if its simply a good fertiliser I'd probably have no concerns. I certainly have none about buying normal fruit and veg I get the normal onions, normal apples, normal bananas blah blah.

On the scale of my fussy buying tendancies, organic probably comes about fifth after percieved quality, value for money, fairtrade/ethical (free range eggs), and lack of muck (muck being hydrogonated vegetable oil and what not).

Personally I've never bought organic stuff unless absolutely necessary*, the organic stuff is always much smaller and more expensive

Smaller, yes, but if the taste is more intense I think thats less of an issue. Again to the peppers, the non-organics I find shrink more and releasre more water when in a frying pan and as the price difference is minimal (I think its about 50p/65p) then in my mind its worth it.

Anyways I don't see how you can talk about quality fruit and veg an morrisons in the same sentence, I find theirs distinctly the worst.

[Sput]

Sput, may I touch you? Just once?

I have a long hard shaft you can caress...it's my ivory tower.

[Sput]

oh and right on time...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... -food.html
starting with...

Despite its obvious benefits for our health and for the environment, organic food continues to be denigrated by the political and corporate establishment in Britain.

yeah, I stopped reading