Salmond vs Darling: The Debates

[ASO]

It's this idea of "Oh, we'll keep all the good bits and say 'fuck you' to everyone else in the UK when we get independence." - I hate it. It's selfish. I abhor it. If you want independence - do it properly. Don't just take all the good bits. Do it properly and realise what independence means. See how you cope when you're really on your own. And then come crying back. I don't think people such as the SNP understand what independence should be. I can't express my hatred for anyone in Scotland who holds this view. If you're gonna do it, do it properly.

[martindtanderson]

Its like one party of the couple wanting a divorce on specious grounds (arguable) and then dictating the terms of the alimony, whilst the other party is not allowed to attend court, or have their say.

[scottishtv]

I don't think people such as the SNP understand what independence should be.

Of course they do. They ultimately want everything to be completely separate and have done for years. However, they are now electorally cleverer than they have ever been. They know that only their own party supporters would ever vote for the complete breakaway version of independence, and they need many more votes than that.

That's why they are crafting this version where by they tell Scots that all things we like will stay the same, and the bad things in life will become good things. There are no downsides, is what they are saying (Keep the pound, keep the Queen, keep getting Eastenders, even keep playing the UK National Lottery(!)). They are also using a campaign vehicle - 'Yes Scotland' - to say these things, to try and persuade voters that it's not just the SNP that want independence. The idea being sold is that independence is an easy process rather than a 'big bang' change.

They're doing okay, as the polls show, but it's still not enough. An interesting development is a slightly different tact being taken by the Yes campaign in the last few days. They are now saying "Only a Yes vote will save the NHS and keep it public". We're now clearly in the campaigning period where anything goes.

[scottishtv]

Its like one party of the couple wanting a divorce on specious grounds (arguable) and then dictating the terms of the alimony, whilst the other party is not allowed to attend court, or have their say.

That's not actually true. Both sides have said that should the yes vote ever happen, then there would be negotiations between the two governments. Of course, the Yes campaign is telling voters the Scottish Government would get everything it wants (the currency union, automatic EU membership, all the oil etc) even though none of this has been discussed - with the exception of the currency union which the three biggest UK parties have ruled out allowing no matter who is in power or who forms the next UK Government. The Yes side say this is bluffing.

So, this is where much of the argument lies and why many undecided voters are struggling to make up their minds - no-one can say with certainty what the outcome of future possible negotiations might be, so they have to vote yes or no trying to take that into account.

[WillPS]

I'm massively against an independent Scotland continuing the pound's usage. Cake, eat, etc. like you say, Salmond ain't thought this through.

Presumably you have a problem with the Isle of Man, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar and St Helena all using the pound then? They're not in the United Kingdom either.

It's not the same thing at all though, is it? Those are all basically tiny colonies; the populous of those places combined is less than 150,000 and their gross economic product is similarly tiny. They've never been a part of the United Kingdom and use the pound as a matter of history and convenience.

Scotland is not voting on whether or not to become a Crown Dependency, they are voting on Independence; their link to the crown being through the Commonwealth.

[barcode]

Scotland is not voting on whether or not to become a Crown Dependency, they are voting on Independence; their link to the crown being through the Commonwealth.

Scotland link to the Crown would NOT be via the commonwealth, it would because she is the Queen of Scotland and England, ie since the union of the crowns of 1607. For 100 years both were independent but shared the King james etc

[WillPS]

Scotland is not voting on whether or not to become a Crown Dependency, they are voting on Independence; their link to the crown being through the Commonwealth.

Scotland link to the Crown would NOT be via the commonwealth, it would because she is the Queen of Scotland and England, ie since the union of the crowns of 1607. For 100 years both were independent but shared the King james etc

Cool beans. Point remains.

[barcode]

Scotland is not voting on whether or not to become a Crown Dependency, they are voting on Independence; their link to the crown being through the Commonwealth.

Scotland link to the Crown would NOT be via the commonwealth, it would because she is the Queen of Scotland and England, ie since the union of the crowns of 1607. For 100 years both were independent but shared the King james etc

Cool beans. Point remains.

Not really, since Scotland Took over English crown.

[WillPS]

not really, since Scotland Took over English crown.

That wasn't the point.

[barcode]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -olds.html

I have to ask if this is for real?

[thegeek]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -olds.html

I have to ask if this is for real?

It's basically a rehash of a story the Mail ran four years ago.

Media training is a nice easy career move for journalists. Politicians are often in need of media training. There isn't even anything in the article that says that Darling definitely used Scott Chisholm. It's a good non-story, really.