Ten extremists who the government believe are a threat to our national security are now being held. According to the latest news reports it could take years and a lot of taxpayers money to get them sent from this country due to their lawers appeals under "human rights". The government have got assurances from Jordan that these extremists would be treated fairly in their own country. So we can now be stuck with any human threat to our country because of so called "human rights"!
What about OUR Human Rights then? The good people of this country and the 52 people that were killed in July? Isn't it worrying also that there are lawyers who are more concerned with the do-good element of this case than the national security of this country?
I burn my josticks in dismay!!!
What About OUR Human Rights Then?
On the subject of the threat from terrorism, the government are proven and brazen liars.malcyb wrote:Ten extremists who the government believe are a threat to our national security are now being held.
It is also not beyond the government (or any government of any colour) to try to pacify the population into thinking it's doing something by passing crappy legislation (for example, the Dangerous Dogs Act) or blaming others for it.
They may or may not be doing that in this case.
Further to my point above, this is why I would rather have the legal system decide this. First, it is evidence-based, and second, there is no personal/political reward for the judge no matter what decision s/he makes.malcyb wrote:According to the latest news reports it could take years and a lot of taxpayers money to get them sent from this country due to their lawers appeals under "human rights".
Jordan, like virtually every other Middle East country (including Tony's beloved Interim Iraqi Authority and Israel) are serial torturers and liars.malcyb wrote:The government have got assurances from Jordan that these extremists would be treated fairly in their own country. So we can now be stuck with any human threat to our country because of so called "human rights"!
IF we send them back and they are tortured, and IF they were no threat to national security, they may be sent ultimately to their deaths.
IF the government are SO confident that these guys will terrorise the community, let them prove it. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. The minute we let go of this basic freedom is the minute our lives belong to someone.
My josticks burn brightly that we still hold onto this freedom.malcyb wrote:What about OUR Human Rights then? The good people of this country and the 52 people that were killed in July? Isn't it worrying also that there are lawyers who are more concerned with the do-good element of this case than the national security of this country?
I burn my josticks in dismay!!!
There is NO evidence presented so far that any of the 10 had any connection with the events in July or any future atrocities. If there is evidence, let the courts see it.
It's not about do-gooding, MalcyB. It's about holding rights as citizens and as human beings that we've had for centuries. Everyone must have the same rights in front of the law.
The minute we lower our standards for someone else, we also do the same for us.
Any yet Cardiff City Council has just given planning permission for the UK's biggest Mosque to be built in the city. It looks like something from Ali Baba, with four 100ft towers which jut into the city skyline.
There's a very interesting article about it on the much-(wrongly)hated BNP website.
There's a very interesting article about it on the much-(wrongly)hated BNP website.
No, but these Mosques just seem to be a breeding ground for the promotion of hate by tosspot clerics.johnnyboy wrote:Should we deport people who build mosques? Not sure what your point is, Jamez.
Plus, the proposed building is an utter monstrosity. Much of the city now boasts uber-modern architecture, and now they want to plonk a vile-looking Mosque in the city centre.
I dont think Saudi authorities would be too happy if Britons wanted to build a replica of Llandaf Cathedral in Medina.
In that case, should we close all Mosques because they might say something the Government and/or majority of the British public rightly or wrongly believe?Jamez wrote:No, but these Mosques just seem to be a breeding ground for the promotion of hate by tosspot clerics.
Still not sure what you're on about.
Agreed, but Medina is a Holy City to Muslims. Saudi Arabia is also a brutal dictatorship.Jamez wrote:I dont think Saudi authorities would be too happy if Britons wanted to build a replica of Llandaf Cathedral in Medina.
Cardiff can hardly be called a Holy City to whatever the prevailing belief of this country is or was. Britain is not a brutal dictatorship.
If the government sit around and do nothing they get it in the neck.johnnyboy wrote:On the subject of the threat from terrorism, the government are proven and brazen liars.malcyb wrote:Ten extremists who the government believe are a threat to our national security are now being held.
It is also not beyond the government (or any government of any colour) to try to pacify the population into thinking it's doing something by passing crappy legislation (for example, the Dangerous Dogs Act) or blaming others for it.
They may or may not be doing that in this case.
Further to my point above, this is why I would rather have the legal system decide this. First, it is evidence-based, and second, there is no personal/political reward for the judge no matter what decision s/he makes.malcyb wrote:According to the latest news reports it could take years and a lot of taxpayers money to get them sent from this country due to their lawers appeals under "human rights".
Jordan, like virtually every other Middle East country (including Tony's beloved Interim Iraqi Authority and Israel) are serial torturers and liars.malcyb wrote:The government have got assurances from Jordan that these extremists would be treated fairly in their own country. So we can now be stuck with any human threat to our country because of so called "human rights"!
IF we send them back and they are tortured, and IF they were no threat to national security, they may be sent ultimately to their deaths.
IF the government are SO confident that these guys will terrorise the community, let them prove it. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. The minute we let go of this basic freedom is the minute our lives belong to someone.
My josticks burn brightly that we still hold onto this freedom.malcyb wrote:What about OUR Human Rights then? The good people of this country and the 52 people that were killed in July? Isn't it worrying also that there are lawyers who are more concerned with the do-good element of this case than the national security of this country?
I burn my josticks in dismay!!!
There is NO evidence presented so far that any of the 10 had any connection with the events in July or any future atrocities. If there is evidence, let the courts see it.
It's not about do-gooding, MalcyB. It's about holding rights as citizens and as human beings that we've had for centuries. Everyone must have the same rights in front of the law.
The minute we lower our standards for someone else, we also do the same for us.
If they to take action they are accused of reacting unnecessary.
Poor sods get it wrong either way.
I take on board your responses though johnnyboy and share your comments jamez too. But at the end of the day there is no smoke without fire and I wouldn't be surprised if there is good reason for the government wanting to deport these ten guys because something may well be known about them which we cannot be told about in case it breaches national security briefs.
The Government can't be held responsible for stopping everything happening that people might not like. Even someone who doesn't like this Government very much wouldn't be so stupid as to suggest that (and I know that's not what you're saying, malcyb).malcyb wrote:If the government sit around and do nothing they get it in the neck.
In any free society, people do bad things. Some people do some very bad things. Even given that, I'd rather live in a society that doesn't punish me or anyone else for thinking a certain way.
Yes, that happens to Governments all the time on every single issue anyway. What's new?malcyb wrote:If they to take action they are accused of reacting unnecessary.
Poor sods get it wrong either way.
C'mon, malcyb, "no smoke without fire" is no kind of argument.malcyb wrote:But at the end of the day there is no smoke without fire and I wouldn't be surprised if there is good reason for the government wanting to deport these ten guys because something may well be known about them which we cannot be told about in case it breaches national security briefs.
The question is do you want to live in a country that will not surrender its freedoms to terrorists or populist Governments hyping up the terrorist threat where someone is innocent until proven guilty? I know you do.
IMHO . . . the vast majority (at least 98.9%) of all Muslims are honest, decent law abiding people, just like the rest of us.
Most Muslims are just as annoyed and disgusted as the rest of us, at all the nasty bile that is publicly spoken by the
likes of Abu Qatada, Sheikh Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, and other such pathetic lowlife fanatical idiots.
The problem we have here, is there's a small minority of Muslims dragging the entire faith of Islam, and the words
of their sacred book, The Koran, through the mud, and giving all the law abiding and proper Muslims a bad name.
IMHO, and this might make me sound a bit like a Daily Mail reader (which I'm not, BTW) from the very moment
anyone, from any religion, starts publicly spouting the sort of bullsh*t these so called "hate preachers" have
been coming out with, then they relinquish ALL of their human rights, bar one. The only human right I'd let
them have, if charged with offences that go against anti-terror laws, is the right to a fair trial. No matter
what sort of wrongdoing a person has been charged with, everyone deserves to have a fair trial.
I've absolutely nothing against free speech, in principle. It's one of the many things that makes these little islands of
ours, such a decent society. I would even go as far as to say, that these so called "hate preachers" are absolutely
entitled to their beliefs, no matter how nasty they are. Just as long as they actually keep their warped and evil
beliefs to themselves, and keep their mouths firmaly shut. Once they start spouting their crap, by default,
they've gone beyond the principle, and relinquish any rights to any and all free speech they have had.
Most Muslims are just as annoyed and disgusted as the rest of us, at all the nasty bile that is publicly spoken by the
likes of Abu Qatada, Sheikh Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, and other such pathetic lowlife fanatical idiots.
The problem we have here, is there's a small minority of Muslims dragging the entire faith of Islam, and the words
of their sacred book, The Koran, through the mud, and giving all the law abiding and proper Muslims a bad name.
IMHO, and this might make me sound a bit like a Daily Mail reader (which I'm not, BTW) from the very moment
anyone, from any religion, starts publicly spouting the sort of bullsh*t these so called "hate preachers" have
been coming out with, then they relinquish ALL of their human rights, bar one. The only human right I'd let
them have, if charged with offences that go against anti-terror laws, is the right to a fair trial. No matter
what sort of wrongdoing a person has been charged with, everyone deserves to have a fair trial.
I've absolutely nothing against free speech, in principle. It's one of the many things that makes these little islands of
ours, such a decent society. I would even go as far as to say, that these so called "hate preachers" are absolutely
entitled to their beliefs, no matter how nasty they are. Just as long as they actually keep their warped and evil
beliefs to themselves, and keep their mouths firmaly shut. Once they start spouting their crap, by default,
they've gone beyond the principle, and relinquish any rights to any and all free speech they have had.
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Lorns
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I see the point you're making here. I believe in keeping your friends close and your enemies even closer.Hymagumba wrote:if these folk are dangerous why deport them to other countries where they can plot attacks? it makes no sense
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