So are Labour on their way out?

[barcode]

Mr Cameron has said the following

Mr Cameron said he would respect the right of the Scottish Parliament to rule on domestic matters in Scotland if he became prime minister.

In return, he would want the Scottish National Party to accept his mandate to decide on issues such as defence which affect the whole of the UK.

This will only work if he get AT LEAST half the seats in scotland and well its not really looking like that, he trying to prepare for something that ain't going to happen, and still has the misfortune to believe he could be a PM for the whole of the UK.

[James H]

I would say, that since prescriptions became free in wales I dare say the number of prescriptions being made up has gone up, Its very likely that if the charges come back in there would drop. and in Scotland this will also happen come 2011.

Er - so GPs will deny medicine to people because it's expensive??

What the fuck are you on about?

And your bollocks about Cameron makes me laugh. Tell me barcode, did you vote for the SNP? I am aware we have quite a few Scottish lasses on this forum but I daresay they'll make considerably more measured voting choices rather than a knee-jerk reaction to the word "Tory".

Fuck off back to your deep-fried Daily Mirror and come back when you've got a firm grasp of what you're talking about.

[Gavin Scott]

There's no need to show such rudeness, thanks James. You're afforded your rants, so try to keep your responses to other's civil. Incidentally, we have the Daily Record, not the Daily Mirror.

Perhaps barcode isn't articulating his point regarding prescription charges clearly, and I confess I'm not exactly following it myself. One thing is difficult to argue with though - like it or not - there IS a common kneejerk reaction to the tories in Scotland.

I often speak with friends about conversations had here on Metropol, and when I say how many young English members talk about their support of the tories, there's a certain amount of, well, disbelief.

There's still a mistrust and anger here from things like the Poll Tax being introduced on us, the way industry was shattered in the 80s and so on. There was vehement opposition to so much of what happened to us - and I should know, as my mother was a tory candidate here at that time. I heard every anti-tory sentiment going, and got the opposing view at home.

All of Britain went through difficult times in the 80s as industry changed forever, but the pain was deep here, and still resonates.

What I hear from Cameron now (acknowledging the tories were "wrong" to oppose devolution) sounds like an attempt to put aside this long running ill-feeling.

But at their core, I believe the Westminster tories still think of Scotland as a parochial backwater. They want us to fall in line as they expect of the Welsh; and I think they underestimate us.

[James H]

There's no need to show such rudeness, thanks James. You're afforded your rants, so try to keep your responses to other's civil. Incidentally, we have the Daily Record, not the Daily Mirror.

Perhaps barcode isn't articulating his point regarding prescription charges clearly, and I confess I'm not exactly following it myself. One thing is difficult to argue with though - like it or not - there IS a common kneejerk reaction to the tories in Scotland.

I often speak with friends about conversations had here on Metropol, and when I say how many young English members talk about their support of the tories, there's a certain amount of, well, disbelief.

There's still a mistrust and anger here from things like the Poll Tax being introduced on us, the way industry was shattered in the 80s and so on. There was vehement opposition to so much of what happened to us - and I should know, as my mother was a tory candidate here at that time. I heard every anti-tory sentiment going, and got the opposing view at home.

All of Britain went through difficult times in the 80s as industry changed forever, but the pain was deep here, and still resonates.

What I hear from Cameron now (acknowledging the tories were "wrong" to oppose devolution) sounds like an attempt to put aside this long running ill-feeling.

But at their core, I believe the Westminster tories still think of Scotland as a parochial backwater. They want us to fall in line as they expect of the Welsh; and I think they underestimate us.

Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to have reasoned debate with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about? Oh - of course you do - your conversations with Brekkie show that.

My outburst at barcode is sheer frustration. I live in a safe Labour constituency with the same kind of morons, who vote Labour because their parents would probably disown them if they didn't, and they're afraid to break from tradition and vote for someone based on actual research. If barcode is not one of these people, I'd only hope he can prove me wrong (in plain English, please).

But don't forget - a lot of what Thatcher did to industry in the 80s came as a result of the sheer idiocy and economic mismanagement of the Labour years, and near destruction of the country by corrupt unions at the end of the 70s. The North-east suffered particularly badly, and people have long memories - but they still don't understand that socialism doesn't work as a principle, and I'd argue that many people merely hear the word "labour" and associate it with protecting workers' interests, and hear the word "tory" and associate it immediately with a rich, out of touch candidate.

That in mind, I wonder if someone can tell me which part of South Shields Millipede is from? Exactly. Parachuted in to a Lab safe seat and there he will stay until he pretends to be PM.

[cdd]

Premeditated/tactical angriness was my interpretation if you'll forgive the cynicism.

[Gavin Scott]

Do you know how incredibly difficult it is to have reasoned debate with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about? Oh - of course you do - your conversations with Brekkie show that.

Dare I say, Brekkie is quite literate, and expresses his point well. Its just that oftentimes I find him to be fundamentally wrong.

Barcode is the opposite. His writing skills often belie his logical, considered viewpoints. He's not always right, but there's none of us perfect.

My outburst at barcode is sheer frustration. I live in a safe Labour constituency with the same kind of morons, who vote Labour because their parents would probably disown them if they didn't, and they're afraid to break from tradition and vote for someone based on actual research. If barcode is not one of these people, I'd only hope he can prove me wrong (in plain English, please).

I'm not one of those people - for the reasons outlined in my earlier post. As a teenager I heard all sides, and had to come to my own considered view.

But don't forget - a lot of what Thatcher did to industry in the 80s came as a result of the sheer idiocy and economic mismanagement of the Labour years, and near destruction of the country by corrupt unions at the end of the 70s. The North-east suffered particularly badly, and people have long memories - but they still don't understand that socialism doesn't work as a principle, and I'd argue that many people merely hear the word "labour" and associate it with protecting workers' interests, and hear the word "tory" and associate it immediately with a rich, out of touch candidate.

In the 70s, the Labour party relied on the votes of the union members. They were beholden to them. It wasn't so much a socialist agenda that allowed the winter of discontent to take place, it was a fear of being voted out. Plain and simple.

The unions needed brought into line. Not destroyed and outlawed as Thatcher insisted on. She, after all, didn't rely on their votes; but she was all about a world which favoured the employer, not the employee.

The net result was a prosperous Britain, in terms of GDP - if nothing else. A new, successful banking sector was created.

Thatcher championed individuality and personal prosperity one the one hand, while destroying the prospects of hundreds of towns and cities on the other. LONDON benefited from Thatcher's Britain - and ultimately the UK benefited from that; but not before and until an entire generation of Scots were ruined.

I'm 37. I saw it. I lived in West Lothian, and saw communities of mine and steel workers finished. I saw desperation, drugs and alcohol take hold.

I have to hope that I'm balanced and reasonable enough to listen carefully to the politicians of today, and make the right choice for me, and my fellow countrymen.

But I confess - its hard not to be cautious about what I hear from the tories, especially when what I do hear sounds so hollow - and frighteningly familiar.

[Sput]

BUT, and this is more of a question than something phrased as a question, how much of the decline of traditional industry and rise of the service economy was actually natural progression and evolution of the world economy and independent of who was in charge? I guess what I wonder is how much thatcher was responding to that change rather than pushing it.

[Mr Q]

BUT, and this is more of a question than something phrased as a question, how much of the decline of traditional industry and rise of the service economy was actually natural progression and evolution of the world economy and independent of who was in charge? I guess what I wonder is how much thatcher was responding to that change rather than pushing it.

Well, I think there's an element of that - she did what needed to be done. But I think few politicians would have had the balls (ahem... yes, I know...) to do it anyway. Thatcher not only transformed Britain - her reforms inspired governments around the world. Governments of differing political hues I might add - in Australia, for instance, the wave of deregulation which unshackled our economy in the 1980s was promoted chiefly by the Labor party.

[Alexia]

Labor party.

Spelling!! Bloody colonials!!

[barcode]

just to highlight, I do not live in a labour mp seat NOR labour msp seat, Nor a labour controlled council.
My parents no longer wish to vote for labour, but the shall not vote Tory, as there still alot of mistrusted over them, the Scottish Tories in Holyrood operate an arms length relationship with main UK party.

As Gavin said we will not fall in to place, the EU election highlight this there got around 17% the SAME 17% there have held on to for about 20 years its not going up, and it not likely to either, so people are not convinced yet. Most of the people are staying with labour or the going to the SNP, number of people have gone back to the labour party Glenrothes shows us that.

[James H]

just to highlight, I do not live in a labour mp seat NOR labour msp seat, Nor a labour controlled council.
My parents no longer wish to vote for labour, but the shall not vote Tory, as there still alot of mistrusted over them, the Scottish Tories in Holyrood operate an arms length relationship with main UK party.

As Gavin said we will not fall in to place, the EU election highlight this there got around 17% the SAME 17% there have held on to for about 20 years its not going up, and it not likely to either, so people are not convinced yet. Most of the people are staying with labour or the going to the SNP, number of people have gone back to the labour party Glenrothes shows us that.

1. How can you say that you mistrust the Tories, when you see the pack of Labour jokers who are in power at the moment? The Lisbon Treaty/EU Constitution is one such example of perceived lying to the public, as is the u-turn over tuition top-up fees, which has left thousands of students worse off than they would have been.

2. What can the Tories do to "convince" you - when you've said that now isn't the time for policies?

3. Do you think that Alex Salmond is part of the reason that Scotland is being perceived as a "backwater" - or a completely different country, separate from the UK? You complain about the STs operate at an arms length, but then some in l'Ecosse want independence from the UK, and you just can't have it both ways...