BNP data leak

[Ronnie Rowlands]

One of the people on the list lives up the road from me, and I've found out he's the father of a girl who is very unpleasant towards me all the time. Boy have I got some ammo to use. Ho ho ho.

[James H]

We are all outraged at the BNP's attacks on ethnic minorities, Gavin.

I thought you said you didn't believe that the BNP are racist?

I never said I didn't believe the BNP were racist. I said that it was unfair to use a catch-all term when there are most likely quite a few members of the BNP who don't believe the Tories are right-wing enough, but aren't as xenophobic as the other members of the party.

I never denied that there were also vile and contemptible racists and bigots in the party,

[Gavin Scott]

I never denied that there were also vile and contemptible racists and bigots in the party,

That's right James. Some might say they're the ones running the party.

When you sign up to such a party I would say its important that you understand its motivations and objectives.

Perhaps not everyone who signed up is aware - but ignorance is hardly a defence when you purposefully subscribe to a political, activist movement.

[Alexia]

it was unfair to use a catch-all term when there are most likely quite a few members of the BNP who ... aren't as xenophobic as the other members of the party.

I wrote this post as Gavin was posting his.... so bear with me as I cover similar ground.

If you become a member of a political party, you must agree in part with what they represent. When you ascribe your name to an organisation, you take all the perks and downsides that come with it.

Therefore, all the people on that list, by default, subscribe to the manifesto of the BNP.

"the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin"

"we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years."

"the restoration of capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges"

"instill in our young people knowledge of and pride in the history, cultures and heritage of the native peoples of Britain."

"reject the idea that Britain must forever be obliged to subsidise the incompetence and corruption of Third World states by supplying them with financial aid"

I see where you're coming from James, that not all the members of the BNP are frog-marching Nazis, just as not all members of the Labour party are trade unionists or Reds. But for a person to have such a negative opinion of their country that they are tempted to join a party with the ideals such as those listed above, there must be something seriously wrong with their character. I've seen it first hand - people who believe that because they see a few dark faces or hear a few East European accents that suddenly their identity is threatened... such thinking indicates a very paranoid, very thin-skinned and very angry personality. And the BNP relishes that and preys on that.

[James H]

But that, in theory, means that anyone who votes for a party in an election agrees with the manifesto that they provide (as if - my studies last year proved differently, however this is merely in theory). So are you really saying that when you vote Labour, you agree to EVERYTHING the Labour party stands for?

I know being a member/voting are different things but they are part of the same democratic model we claim as ours.

[Gavin Scott]

But that, in theory, means that anyone who votes for a party in an election agrees with the manifesto that they provide (as if - my studies last year proved differently, however this is merely in theory). So are you really saying that when you vote Labour, you agree to EVERYTHING the Labour party stands for?

I know being a member/voting are different things but they are part of the same democratic model we claim as ours.

James - we're not talking about the Labour party, or the tories or another slightly one-side or the other of centre party.

We're talking about the BNP and their fundamental credo. Read their manifesto and then tell me its a fudging issue.

Seriously.

Are you having difficulty with the fact that people you know and like might have signed up for that? Or are you saying the majority on that list don't really subscribe to sending immigrants "home"?

[James H]

Gavin, I am merely triyng to see things from both sides of the argument. There is, to me, nothing wrong with that, and I am glad it is making you state your views because I can tell you're passionate about them. All I am trying to do is stimulate debate and to make an educated judgement on the issue without basing it on my own prejudices.

I remember my Voltaire!

[Alexia]

We all can look at both sides of the argument, but that shouldn't be the be all and end all. We all form an opinion, and mine and Gav's firmly comes down on the anti-fascist/nationalist/exclusionist side. That is all. That is our opinion, and no amount of philosophy or "but look at their pov" will change that. The whole point of our POV is that we find their POV abhorrent and cannot possibly entertain the possibility of giving them any semblance of a benefit of a doubt.

[Gavin Scott]

We all can look at both sides of the argument, but that shouldn't be the be all and end all. We all form an opinion, and mine and Gav's firmly comes down on the anti-fascist/nationalist/exclusionist side. That is all. That is our opinion, and no amount of philosophy or "but look at their pov" will change that. The whole point of our POV is that we find their POV abhorrent and cannot possibly entertain the possibility of giving them any semblance of a benefit of a doubt.

That's exactly where I stand.

[Mr Q]

It's a paradox but it's one that comes from being massively better people than they are. That's my point.

Agreed - if we're happy to deny them they're rights, then we're accepting their argument that only certain people deserve those rights. To defend their right to privacy is in fact to argue that their position is fundamentally wrong.

[timgraham]

Simon Darby admitted to The Times yesterday that he regularly used his City Hall office to work in his capacity as the BNP’s media spokesman, a job that is unrelated to his publicly funded position.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 193723.ece

Delightful people, they are..