Or, rather, is the system for employment in the UK a total farce.
Often, employers, looking at the "experience" part of a CV, make a spontaneous (and, frequently, unfair) judgement on the potential employee's ability. It is obvious, then, that work-seekers placed in such a position will feel inclined (or at least tempted) to falisfy references and/or experience.
Is it acceptable therefore to sacrifice honesty on CVs in order to get noticed by employers? Or should everybody have to work up the ladder in order to get to ultimately a more important position. Perhaps there should be a new system altogether.
Is it morally right to embroider the truth on a CV?
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Neil Jones
- Posts: 661
- Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2003 20.03
- Location: West Midlands
This discussion came up previously in a related discussion (that I started on here) about the general crapness of employment agencies. That thread is here:
http://www.metropol247.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1018 but for the purposes of this thread you read now, start from Lova's contribution at the bottom of page 2. Whether he or she was bullshitting I sill cannot be sure.
http://www.metropol247.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1018 but for the purposes of this thread you read now, start from Lova's contribution at the bottom of page 2. Whether he or she was bullshitting I sill cannot be sure.
That thread is certainly interesting. There appears to be a fairly wide scope of opinions.Neil Jones wrote:This discussion came up previously in a related discussion (that I started on here) about the general crapness of employment agencies. That thread is here:
http://www.metropol247.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1018 but for the purposes of this thread you read now, start from Lova's contribution at the bottom of page 2. Whether he or she was bullshitting I sill cannot be sure.
Personally I find this difficult to place; on one hand it's a way to get past an undoubtedly unfair system, but the point that it places the "liar" at an unfair advantage against those who have been honest and climbed the metaphorical ladder (however unfair many consider it to be) is a good one, and one that I find undeniable.
I think making up things for your CV is suicide. Don't lie, but make noises to make something sound more important.
For example, "I worked for three years in catering" when you had the job at the local bistro doing the washing up. If they ask what you were doing, be honest, but if they don't, you have not lied.
And if your job does have an over-egged name, use it! I have friends who are "stock replenishers". Shelf stackers to you and me.
For example, "I worked for three years in catering" when you had the job at the local bistro doing the washing up. If they ask what you were doing, be honest, but if they don't, you have not lied.
And if your job does have an over-egged name, use it! I have friends who are "stock replenishers". Shelf stackers to you and me.
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Big Brother
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 13.21
For one of your first jobs it doesn't matter too much but be warned they'll probably asked about SOME of these things.
It depends what your lyeing about. For example I bet most people put they do lots of walking, watching TV and swimming when quite frankly they do nothing more than sitting watching TV eating sweets and crips. Not that I'm talking from personal experience.
If your going for a job of imporance such as the first job in your chosen career field on leaving Uni/College then I wouldn't lie. For example, you wish to be a Managing Director of a company and you find yourself a job as a Train Conductor, lyeing about things on your CV wouldn't matter too much but as always there could be an interview and probably various 'tests' etc. You could then potentially quite happily work your way up, Train Conductor > Driver > (randomness) Driver Management > (random guess) Department Management > Director > MD.
It depends what your lyeing about. For example I bet most people put they do lots of walking, watching TV and swimming when quite frankly they do nothing more than sitting watching TV eating sweets and crips. Not that I'm talking from personal experience.
If your going for a job of imporance such as the first job in your chosen career field on leaving Uni/College then I wouldn't lie. For example, you wish to be a Managing Director of a company and you find yourself a job as a Train Conductor, lyeing about things on your CV wouldn't matter too much but as always there could be an interview and probably various 'tests' etc. You could then potentially quite happily work your way up, Train Conductor > Driver > (randomness) Driver Management > (random guess) Department Management > Director > MD.
The moral issue over lying on one's CV is an interesting one. Although on the face of it, it appears to be a clear cut 'wrong' thing to do, I do think it goes deeper than that.
As I noted in the quoted thread, lying on a CV may not be fair to others who don't lie, and may not be 'right', but then life isn't fair and isn't right. If you don't lie to push yourself up the ladder, it's almost certain that someone else will.
And as well as that, people who can't get a job by being straight down the line will then be depending on someone else (or the state) to financially support them. What is worse, being a financial burden on a family member/friend when you could just tell a white lie, gain your own financial independence and take that burden away from them, or similarly, living off of state benefits even though you know you are perfectly able to work instead of adding some embelishments to your CV to get into work?
As to what is acceptable or not, well that rather depends. Making up stupid things like claiming you hold qualifications which you know you could never achieve or claiming to be experienced in an area you haven't got the first idea I would say is very wrong, but then if your job involves drawing on those areas of your CV then it will only come back to bite you on the ass when it becomes blissfully aware to your employer that you haven't.
On the other hand, writing down things you haven't got/haven't done but know that you could do and which would affect your ability to do your job I don't actually see as being such a terrible thing - you'll still need to have the ability to do them to hold the job down.
A case in point here - a friend of my recently started a bar job. Her previous experience consisted of playing barmaid at a lock in on new year's eve in a local pub - but she took to it immediately and new she had what it took to do a proper bar job. But that experience is not something you can put on a CV; for one thing it would be dropping your local in it and secondly it wouldn't be considered a sufficient level of experience. Thus her CV actually says that she worked at a pub for 6 months - a lie. But it got her the job. And she can do the job. And if she couldn't, she would be out by now. I personally don't think what she did was so bad.
I think an important point to consider before claiming it is a crime against humanity to lie on your CV is this one; lieing on your CV might get you the job, but to keep your job you'll actually have to be able to do it, in which case whose to say that you don't deserve that job as much as the next person?
As I noted in the quoted thread, lying on a CV may not be fair to others who don't lie, and may not be 'right', but then life isn't fair and isn't right. If you don't lie to push yourself up the ladder, it's almost certain that someone else will.
And as well as that, people who can't get a job by being straight down the line will then be depending on someone else (or the state) to financially support them. What is worse, being a financial burden on a family member/friend when you could just tell a white lie, gain your own financial independence and take that burden away from them, or similarly, living off of state benefits even though you know you are perfectly able to work instead of adding some embelishments to your CV to get into work?
As to what is acceptable or not, well that rather depends. Making up stupid things like claiming you hold qualifications which you know you could never achieve or claiming to be experienced in an area you haven't got the first idea I would say is very wrong, but then if your job involves drawing on those areas of your CV then it will only come back to bite you on the ass when it becomes blissfully aware to your employer that you haven't.
On the other hand, writing down things you haven't got/haven't done but know that you could do and which would affect your ability to do your job I don't actually see as being such a terrible thing - you'll still need to have the ability to do them to hold the job down.
A case in point here - a friend of my recently started a bar job. Her previous experience consisted of playing barmaid at a lock in on new year's eve in a local pub - but she took to it immediately and new she had what it took to do a proper bar job. But that experience is not something you can put on a CV; for one thing it would be dropping your local in it and secondly it wouldn't be considered a sufficient level of experience. Thus her CV actually says that she worked at a pub for 6 months - a lie. But it got her the job. And she can do the job. And if she couldn't, she would be out by now. I personally don't think what she did was so bad.
I think an important point to consider before claiming it is a crime against humanity to lie on your CV is this one; lieing on your CV might get you the job, but to keep your job you'll actually have to be able to do it, in which case whose to say that you don't deserve that job as much as the next person?
I'm torn on this issue.
As an ex-employer (I'm too skint to pay someone else at the moment), I kind of thought that CV-embroidering showed willingness and ability to spin the truth. These qualities are essential in sales, like it or not, let alone any other field of human activity where the point is to edify oneself or one's products to another.
On the other hand, if they lie about that, what else will they lie about?
My gut instinct is to keep someone who has embroidered their CV after I have taken them on (and this has happened in the past), as long as they are making the company profit. And that's the bottom line with business.
However, if someone had embroidered a prison career from their CV, that might be different.
As an ex-employer (I'm too skint to pay someone else at the moment), I kind of thought that CV-embroidering showed willingness and ability to spin the truth. These qualities are essential in sales, like it or not, let alone any other field of human activity where the point is to edify oneself or one's products to another.
On the other hand, if they lie about that, what else will they lie about?
My gut instinct is to keep someone who has embroidered their CV after I have taken them on (and this has happened in the past), as long as they are making the company profit. And that's the bottom line with business.
However, if someone had embroidered a prison career from their CV, that might be different.
Coming off from this, is it right to "sex up" your product in order to gain a sale from a customer?johnnyboy wrote:I'm torn on this issue.
As an ex-employer (I'm too skint to pay someone else at the moment), I kind of thought that CV-embroidering showed willingness and ability to spin the truth. These qualities are essential in sales, like it or not, let alone any other field of human activity where the point is to edify oneself or one's products to another.
As long as you do not cross the line into lying or saying a product or service does or has something it does not, then yes.Chris wrote:Coming off from this, is it right to "sex up" your product in order to gain a sale from a customer?
Lying is never correct and will bite you in the arse. I have had employees in the past who have lied, and they get straight in touch with the credit card company and reverse the transaction. Thus, everyone's time and my money are wasted.
It's not right morally to lie, and it's bad for business.
"Sexing up" does not necessarily mean what I think you believe it means.
Well there are actually laws against misrepresentation (false advertising)... possibly the sleaziest example is the "serving suggestion" you read on the front of every item of food produce.Chris wrote:Coming off from this, is it right to "sex up" your product in order to gain a sale from a customer?
This reminds me of how Tesco managed to squeeze a measly 24 Belgian chocolate florontines (12 of which are nasty and cheap and made of rice, but that's besides the point) into a gigantic "finest" box -- and when I promptly returned it for a refund, I was politely informed that there was "nothing wrong with the actual product".
And I'm about to veer off the initial topic, but I believe this point is worth nothing anyway: many people are supporting a bill stating that advertising food to children should be illegal. At face value that seems fine but there would certainly be many grey-areas (and thus lawsuits) about to which age-group certain foods/advertisments had been aimed.