Let's Worry The Country about 2020

[malcyb]

In the last couple of days the government have be talking about raising the pension age from 65 to 70 in the decade starting 2020. Also there has been talk about nationwide congestion charges along the lines of pay-as-you-go driving instead of road tax. All this coming in to full force in 15 years times. These issues aside, can you understand why any government wants to worry their electorate with these proposals now when in 15-20 years time we will have seen probably 2 or 3 changes of government and for sure all those at the top of the tree now will be retired by then. Also, technology, industry and the environment will have developed further and have different needs by then.

[Nick Harvey]

But never forget that, should it become necessary, modified retirement ages and road congestion charges can be deployed by Mr Bliar in 45 minutes.

[Snu]

This government are quite awful. I did used to speak quite highly of them, but these past few months have just made me reassess my opinion.

One things for sure, if we let them win another term, then Tax will be the buzz word for the subsequent 4-5 years! The fact remains that the current level of tax simply doesn’t accommodate the debt Gordon Brown has placed on the country. The alleged Civil Service cutbacks are nothing more than attempt to keep tax stable before the next election. This is echoed in the Chancellors latest spending review, which in it he has outlined the lowest level of spending in Front Line services in his seven years as chancellor. There’s me thinking that the jolly back office civil servant was loosing their job at the benefit of something justifiable like Front Line service.

This government does not deserve to win the next election IMO, to be honest I don’t know which party does but it certainly is not this one.

[nwtv2003]

This government does not deserve to win the next election IMO, to be honest I don’t know which party does but it certainly is not this one.

Very true, it has just gone worse for Labour really, it was a nice change when they came to power but these past 2 or 3 years they have ballsed it up big time and many people don't trust Blair, I being one of them. Plus I don't like the idea of this new Council Tax thing, I would only see it as a good thing if there was an increase in services, which there probably won't be, I also think it isn't fair to those on Pensions, they get hardly nothing as it is and they're expected to pay more on top, which is a disgrace IMO, with it I can see 'Poll Tax MKII' happening. I also think that the whole thing to do with Top Up fees is another joke, I don't see anything wrong with paying a small fee for University tuition, but it's taking the piss with it.

Though this thread is quite correctly pointing out how far into the future this government is looking into, especially with such things as Tax and roads, still I think they're going a bit far with it IMO.

Though at the next Election which hopefully will be in Summer 2005, I will not vote Labour, I would probably vote for the Tories at least, if not Liberal Democrats. Though if it goes like the 2001 election (ie No-one voted!) I could see Labour getting through again, which I do not want to happen.

It must also be said that Tony Blair has been Labour Leader for 10 years now, I wonder what it would have been like if Neil Kinnock got through in 1992, if the Labour leader (Don't know his name) who died got through, or if Gordon Brown was selected as leader of the party.

[Jamez]

I wonder what it would have been like if Neil Kinnock got through in 1992

Rubbish would be piled high in the streets, owning a car would be only for the very rich, public transport would be crippled, hospitals would be near total collapse, taxes would be astronomical, we'd all be using the single currency etc. etc.

Blair hasn't done a bad job, but he's losing his grip now. Perhaps it's time to replace him (not with Gordon Brown though).

I would say give the Tories another go, but they have still yet to make an impression on me (even though I'm a Tory voter by nature).

The Lib Dems are all fucking loonatics, and a vote for them in a general election is a wasted vote IMO.

[nwtv2003]

I wonder what it would have been like if Neil Kinnock got through in 1992

Rubbish would be piled high in the streets, owning a car would be only for the very rich, public transport would be crippled, hospitals would be near total collapse, taxes would be astronomical, we'd all be using the single currency etc. etc.

Blair hasn't done a bad job, but he's losing his grip now. Perhaps it's time to replace him (not with Gordon Brown though).

I would say give the Tories another go, but they have still yet to make an impression on me (even though I'm a Tory voter by nature).

The Lib Dems are all fucking loonatics, and a vote for them in a general election is a wasted vote IMO.

You make a good point really, the first few years of Labour weren't to bad, but it's going worse now, if the party wants a good chance of getting through in 2005, then Blair should resign. I know alot of people hated the Tory government in the 1990's, as it was a bad period for them and people were happy when they lost, but times have changed now and they seem to have got themselves back on track, I think Michael Howard is doing a good job, as he has the right ideas and stuff, though I find it difficult to imagine him as a PM. Liberal Democrats don't seem to be too bad really, but they haven't got a hope in hell of winning a general election, they're in power in my part of Warrington and they're doing a good job really, but again it would be difficult to imagine them running the country and AFAIK they haven't ran it before.

BTW The former Labour leader who died was John Smith, I was watching a bit of Tony Blair's speech when he won the leadership in 1994.

[Jamez]

It makes me wonder when Britain is going to get another English PM.

Tony Blair: Scottish
Gordon Brown: Scottish
Alastair Darling: Scottish
Jon Reid: Scottish
Charles Kennedy: Scottish
Michael Howard: Welsh

[Neil Jones]

I wonder what it would have been like if Neil Kinnock got through in 1992

Rubbish would be piled high in the streets, owning a car would be only for the very rich, public transport would be crippled, hospitals would be near total collapse, taxes would be astronomical, we'd all be using the single currency etc. etc.

Strangely enough, some of this is happening now. Crappy public transport, crappy hospitals, high taxes, crappy councils who don't send people out to empty the rubbish bins (so in this street it literally was piling up for the best part of a fortnight) not so long ago.

As for the cost of owning a car being only for the very rich - well on the way with that one as well. The M6 toll road, the other planned toll road, universal toll roads planned, high petrol costs, MOT, insurance, maintenance, these new satellite tracking things for tolls, congestion charges, speed cameras, etc etc etc.

[Mich]

Strangely enough, some of this is happening now. Crappy public transport, crappy hospitals, high taxes, crappy councils who don't send people out to empty the rubbish bins (so in this street it literally was piling up for the best part of a fortnight) not so long ago.

Oh come on! Be fair, i'm certainly no Labour supporter, and I can't stand Blair, but this is nothing new.

As for the cost of owning a car being only for the very rich - well on the way with that one as well. The M6 toll road, the other planned toll road, universal toll roads planned, high petrol costs, MOT, insurance, maintenance, these new satellite tracking things for tolls, congestion charges, speed cameras, etc etc etc.

Calm down! A plan this far into the future is sensible when projects this large are being considered, if everything were done on parliamentary cycles we’d get very few big changes. The options as it stands now for charging for car use (other than the private costs of running and keeping roadworthy), are...

Various tolls (currently M6, but others may be planned), high petrol costs, road tax, congestion charge.

One, variable charge. [Although some tolls may still exist{?}]

The problems with the current system are that road tax is inequitable, problems facing it's level, do you put it higher to make people consider car use, or does putting it higher make someone want to use their car more to get 'value for money'? The price of petrol is complained about constantly, although in real terms the rises haven't been so significant. The M6 toll has had a lot of bad press, without the toll premise it probably wouldn't have been built, if you want the easier route you pay the premium.

The fairer option is the variable charge. The overall amount of money raised will not differ greatly, i'd wager that i'd be exactly the same as they planned to raise from all of the other forms of tax. In the case of the variable charge, it can be used so that those who consume more of the service are charged more and vice versa; which is fairer. It can also be used to help tackle externalities from rush hour traffic jams, by providing effectively subsidised travel at off peak times, you reduce the overall journey times, you burn less fuel and everyone should be happy! Lets not forget, if you take all of the tax off petrol it will be very cheap!



Moving onto council tax, this wasn't really major news, and as usual was skewed by the papers. A rise of around 20% for those in 500k+ houses and cuts for those least able to pay, seams the most likely outcome if the status quo changes. Which again is economic, i'll save the lesson for now, but if anyone is interesting i'll happily go into it!

[TVDragon]

It makes me wonder when Britain is going to get another English PM.

Tony Blair: Scottish
Gordon Brown: Scottish
Alastair Darling: Scottish
Jon Reid: Scottish
Charles Kennedy: Scottish
Michael Howard: Welsh

There needn't necessarily be one though surely, James? Much of politics is on personality besides -- a lot of which is shaped by where you're from.

It's not that long ago when virtually the entire cabinet were 50+, from London/SE, privately educated, and completely out of touch with what happened outside the M25/couldn't give a toss what happened. Hence the crippling of Wales and the north, from which they are still really recovering in places.

The amount of regional investment and progress that has happened in recent years is undoubtedly due, in part, to the background of those in charge now. Surely people from all over the place who know about life outside of London is preferable -- there will always be UMC southeasterners.

That's about the only point I'm defending on this thread mind you.

[Still]

The thing to remember about this government is they are all talk. There is a new proposal everyday, yet very little ever gets done. It's just a way to keep our minds busy and to stop us noticing what a mess they are making.

I find it astonishing some of the things they are saying now. There is no honesty at all. Yesterdays crime figures were bad news. Yet I hear a female MP saying that if you calculate another way - 'A much better way' - they look better. Now that's hardly the point, surely? Blair was listing his achievements in a triumphant tone a couple of days ago. Yet half of them were irrelivant. "More Nurses!" he shouted. Sounds good, but the detail is that Health is still in a sorry state. It's a pretty empty boast, so why bother?

Transport is ridiculous. Finding money for the Olympics is a real kick in the face. I've also found their behaviour and demenour following the Hutton and Butler reports awful.

Trouble is, the problem isn't just this government, it's politics as a whole.