What's going on with all this gender stuff?

[Tardisrotor]

In a nutshell that's what the issue is about. There are extremists on both sides and its the majority who are suffering from their ridiculous antics.

[Martin Phillp]

What has helped the Gender Critical movement substantially is that they have a major ally in author J.K. Rowling who was believed to have bankrolled For Women Scotland's appeal against the Scottish Government.

The main players in their movement are largely white middle class women, a small clique who include Rosie Duffield, the MP for Canterbury, Maya Forstater who won her employment tribunal after making transphobic remarks online and Prof Kathleen Stock who left the University of Brighton after also being accused of making transphobic comments.

The issue is those people and others don't see themselves as being transphobic, but see themselves as women's rights activists despite discriminating against trans women.

[james2001]

This comic feels very apt to me, for people who think they won't be the next target:

[bilky asko]

As you can tell I'm not well versed with all this stuff

Indeed, made quite obvious when you post things like:

only way to move forward would be to change the law to have 3 genders.

Baffling that you would post the "only way" forward when you've got no idea what you're talking about.

[james2001]

What has helped the Gender Critical movement substantially is that they have a major ally in author J.K. Rowling who was believed to have bankrolled For Women Scotland's appeal against the Scottish Government.

She genuinely makes me feel sick, I've been unable to watch or read anything Harry Potter related for several years because of all the hate oozing out of her. That photo of her "celebrating" on a yacht with a cigar was one of the most repulsive things I've seen. Let's see how she (and the rest of that campaign group) feels when the bigots move onto eroding women's rights.

[Martin Phillp]

What has helped the Gender Critical movement substantially is that they have a major ally in author J.K. Rowling who was believed to have bankrolled For Women Scotland's appeal against the Scottish Government.

She genuinely makes me feel sick, I've been unable to watch or read anything Harry Potter related for several years because of all the hate oozing out of her. That photo of her "celebrating" on a yacht with a cigar was one of the most repulsive things I've seen. Let's see how she (and the rest of that campaign group) feels when the bigots move onto eroding women's rights.

Luckily I'm not a Harry Potter fan, but fans have a dilemma whether to continue buying books, merchandise or watch the HBO remake as it all helps to support Rowling's gender critical campaigning.

[Tardisrotor]

What i can't understand is the defacement of statues in London following the "emergency demonstration":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkx78zlm4po

[Dr Lobster*]

What has helped the Gender Critical movement substantially is that they have a major ally in author J.K. Rowling who was believed to have bankrolled For Women Scotland's appeal against the Scottish Government.

The other thing which has helped, that can't be understated is what constitutes gender identity is not only contested, but entirely subjective, whilst biological markers are somewhat more defined.

The main players in their movement are largely white middle class women, a small clique who include Rosie Duffield, the MP for Canterbury, Maya Forstater who won her employment tribunal after making transphobic remarks online and Prof Kathleen Stock who left the University of Brighton after also being accused of making transphobic comments.

I'm not sure what race or socioeconomic class really has to do with this debate - are you suggesting that if there were more black people within the movement, their arguments would carry more weight? Or that if someone were poorer, they'd care less about single-sex spaces like changing rooms?

It's worth pointing out, in case you hadn't noticed, that some of the loudest voices on the trans activism side - India Willoughby, Munroe Bergdorf, Katy Montgomery, Heather Herbert, Sophie Mollie, Owen Jones, Billy Bragg, David Tennant, Robin Moira White - are not only overwhelmingly white and middle class, but also biological males imposing their views on what women should be expected to accept as constituting "a woman.". This somewhat less intellectually stable than biological women defending their sex based rights.

Also, it's worth correcting some inaccuracies:

Maya Forstater did not "make transphobic remarks" - she expressed gender-critical views, and the Employment Tribunal ruled that these beliefs are protected under the Equality Act. Similarly, Kathleen Stock resigned from Sussex University after facing harassment and intimidation for expressing her philosophical views on sex and gender - not because she made "transphobic comments."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57426579
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-59084446

The issue is those people and others don't see themselves as being transphobic, but see themselves as women's rights activists despite discriminating against trans women.

It's not "discrimination" to recognise that biological sex matters in certain contexts, particularly when it comes to women's rights, safety, and privacy.

You can support trans people's rights to live free from discrimination, while still believing that access to single-sex spaces should be based on sex, not gender identity - something we already know is effectively undefined.

Defending sex-based rights isn't transphobic: it's acknowledging that women's needs sometimes differ from those of trans-identifying males, and that protecting those boundaries is legitimate and necessary.

[Tardisrotor]

The question is where does gender criticism stop and transphobic commenting starts? From what I understand (which granted isn't much) about the issue it seems the lines have become dangerously blurred.

[PresIdents]

Damn, I wish people would respect the "sex-based rights" of my cis lesbian friends who keep getting aggro in women's toilets for not looking sufficiently feminine enough which often leaves them having to brave the gents with shewees. I would love it if people would utilise their right to mind their own fucking business.

[Martin Phillp]

Damn, I wish people would respect the "sex-based rights" of my cis lesbian friends who keep getting aggro in women's toilets for not looking sufficiently feminine enough which often leaves them having to brave the gents with shewees. I would love it if people would utilise their right to mind their own fucking business.

Exactly this. It'll affect cis gender women who don't conform to the so called norms of femininity if there are security guards as there were at Edinburgh Waverley station last weekend asking for ID if they were suspected of being transgender at the station loos.