Brexit

What's next?

Theresa May's Deal
8
18%
No deal
12
27%
People's vote
22
49%
Something else (pls specify)
3
7%
 
Total votes: 45
bilky asko
Posts: 1142
Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48

Isn't this another regurgitation of Carole Cadwalladr's work? Far too willing to believe whistleblowers and its own marketing, and the supposed power of this advertising.
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cwathen
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

gottago wrote:
Sat 10 Aug, 2019 11.27
Labour’s still practicing the same position of cluelessly avoiding open goal after open goal of opportunity. Literally any other leader of this party would be leading them to an extraordinary victory at another general election. What a shame they’re still lumped with this abominable leader at such a crucial time.
Yet Corbyn seems to be about the most secure party leader of all atm and he knows it - witness his public humiliation of Emily Thornberry by pulling her from PMQs which was obviously punishment after her statements about believing Labour should support a second referendum when she spoke on the BBC during the EU electiction results. The PLP have already tried to remove him once and failed due to the three pounders just returning him again. Unless the Momentum group collapses he is effectively impossible to remove .

Quite why a group made up predominantly of staunch remainers don't seem to have realised they've elected one of the most euro-sceptic MPs in the house as their leader yet think he's going to champion their goals of stopping Brexit I can't fathom.

After 3 years Corbyn has finally bowed to pressure and been dragged kicking and screaming to opposing a 'damaging Tory Brexit' and will now campaign for a second referendum with Labour backing remain...all whilst Labour is in opposition and unable to deliver it, which I'm sure he's aware of. He can talk the talk knowing he won't be able to walk the walk.

Despite his rhetoric he won't commit Labour to holding a second referendum were they to get into power and be in a position to deliver one. This truly baffles the mind...how on earth can you have a policy to campaign for something in opposition which you won't commit to doing were you in power? Yet Corbyn does, and his largely pro-remain followers don't bat an eyelid.

Today's papers apparently report that up to 100 Labour MPs are willing to defy him on this if there is a snap election. Will this work? I doubt it. Corbyn and his band of followers will just deselect/sack/sideline/humiliate the lot of them whilst Momentum supporters which continue to cling to their vision that Jezza is the man will make it impossible for Labour to have a sensible, moderate, competent leader.
gottago
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

bilky asko wrote:
Sat 10 Aug, 2019 21.57
Isn't this another regurgitation of Carole Cadwalladr's work? Far too willing to believe whistleblowers and its own marketing, and the supposed power of this advertising.
Carole features a lot, as does the continuing campaign by Banks and the like to discredit her, but it is mainly following Brittany Kaiser. The evidence is solid. One of the most disturbing bits is how Trinidad’s election was manipulated by Cambridge Analytica by encouraging young people not to vote.

Today’s Times leak is yet more evidence of what a total disaster No Deal will be. It’s not even worst case scenario stuff, simply a ‘most likely scenario’.
all new Phil
Posts: 1598
Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

So Owen Jones was attacked recently. Clearly wouldn’t wish this on anybody, and nor would the vast majority of us.

Straight away the finger of blame was pointed at “the far right” and talk turns to how Brexit has emboldened them to do something like this. Which puts two questions in my mind:
1) I thought all Brexiteers were 65+ year-old gammons who just wanted blue passports etc etc? (Paging james2001)
2) Why do the far right only seem to come about when the far left take control of the Labour Party?

I wish the left would take *some* responsibility for their role in coarsening political debate, especially when anybody to the right of Ed Miliband is smeared as a hard right fascist, and calling for Tories to be lynched is the language of the shadow chancellor.

How have we got to a stage where people can’t be friendly with those they disagree with?
Thought this was a nice forum, clearly not.
cwathen
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

all new Phil wrote:
Sun 18 Aug, 2019 13.45
I wish the left would take *some* responsibility for their role in coarsening political debate, especially when anybody to the right of Ed Miliband is smeared as a hard right fascist, and calling for Tories to be lynched is the language of the shadow chancellor.
Yet they don't. I can't move on my Facebook without being assaulted daily by a barage of bullshit hard left clickbait being reshared (often by people who are my closest friends). I got told that if I voted Tory in the EU elections and my polling station was in a school then apparently I should've taken a shit in a cupboard before leaving. Every time anything remotely bad happens other clickbait will bang the drum about the 'evil Tory government'. Granted, they have become incompetent but I do genuinely believe many 'recent' Labour supporters hold an equally genuine belief that all Tory MPs are some sort of Mr. Burns type characters who sit at home rubbing their hands thinking about how they can screw people over next. It's gotten ridiculous.
How have we got to a stage where people can’t be friendly with those they disagree with?
Simply because too many people have taken on a hardened and entrenched position and are utterly unwilling to listen or compromise on anything. I believe that hard political views at either end of the spectrum are equally paranoid, ridiculous, and downright dangerous. That, and they just plain don't work in a democracy as there will never be enough of a consensus to create a majority from those views. Witness where we are now where we seem stuck in an era of minority governments balanced on a thin knife edge (equally reflected in public opinion too).

There is no way out of it with Jezza and his band of nutters in control of Labour, but equally the Tories are in a no better position led by Bojo and his disciples. I sincerely hope that once Brexit is finally resolved (whenever that is) that both main parties bring back more progressive and balanced front benches and they move back to the centre of politics, which is the only place from which anything significant can be achieved.
TIGHazard
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 23.37

In response to this post by all_night on tvforum,

current sources indicate that opposition remainers believe that they expect Boris to call the election before the 31st, then while parliament is prorogued, delay until after the 31st.

So they will not vote for it.
thegeek
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 12.35

Well I guess our collective prediction wasn't exactly accurate, was it?
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cdd
Posts: 2538
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 14.05

This is an interesting thread to re-read. For my part, I had a misplaced confidence Brexit wouldn’t happen, and regret some of the things I thought about those who voted for Brexit. I still wouldn’t have voted for it, but suggesting that Brexit needed to be a good idea to go ahead or that people were manipulated was patronising and anti-democratic.

In my opinion, it is those on the left (and I include myself in that) who have the most to do to mend fences - and that applies across the board, from Brexit, to other “you’re either with us or against us” ideology and moral superiority. Meanwhile, I hope the Conservatives don’t try and push “no deal” again in just under a year’s time.
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