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[FrancisIdents]

Hi.

It's been a while since I've been over to the TV Lounge. It's worse than I remembered, ...

... The forum only exists in the first place because "The TV Shelter" (no, me neither) shut down. That forum had 246 members; The TV Lounge has 20.

TV Shelter had 246 members, most of them had left by the time the site closed down last April. Most members on there are people I've known for years, but some others have come from places like TV Forum too.

... Meanwhile, I note a few weeks back that FrancisIdents was claiming credit for getting someone to delete DTV's mocks from the Sketchup Warehouse, claiming that the someone only relented upon the threat of Francis terminating his membership to 'The TV Lounge' ...

Yes, I take credit for getting DTV's mocks taken down, and I have the personal messages to prove it. They're here if you wish to read them.

... a forum with 20 members who all seem to be about 12. ...

The feeling's mutual.

There's a sketchbook forum, which is essentially a mock forum for people who are shit at mocks (but not too shit, otherwise FrancisIdents will close your thread). Apparently it exists so you can post your early ideas to be critiqued, but I don't see much of that going on except by FrancisIdents himself. A bit of an ego trip, I'd say.

I like to have feedback on my work, that's why I post regular updates on projects in my thread. With more members there'd be more sketchbooks, more completed mocks, more discussion.

Forum talk aside, bilky and Critique, your posts have given us all a good laugh. Thanks.

[dosxuk]

I see ronnie_1990 has gained a strikethrough to his user name...

[Martin Phillp]

I see ronnie_1990 has gained a strikethrough to his user name...

I wondered why he went quiet.

[Jason]

NZ Newswatch is no more in the gallery! He's gone off in a huff because someone asked him to fix a graphic in a mock.

[Critique]

NZ Newswatch is no more in the gallery! He's gone off in a huff because someone asked him to fix a graphic in a mock.

And it was one of the most attention-seeking exits I've seen in some time! Not only did he rename his thread 'NO MORE NZnewswatch', he then deleted the post with the mock in! This isn't his first TVF exit either, as back in January he started uploaded music shared/linked to on TVF to YouTube, which I suggested was pointless and not really the 'done' thing as all he was doing was taking stuff other people had managed to upload and passing it off as if he'd managed to obtain it. Said thread is here, and ends with the artist formerly known as 'gradynz' saying 'it seems as if some of you don't like people at all'.

[DTV]

NZ Newswatch is no more in the gallery! He's gone off in a huff because someone asked him to fix a graphic in a mock.

And it was one of the most attention-seeking exits I've seen in some time! Not only did he rename his thread 'NO MORE NZnewswatch', he then deleted the post with the mock in! This isn't his first TVF exit either, as back in January he started uploaded music shared/linked to on TVF to YouTube, which I suggested was pointless and not really the 'done' thing as all he was doing was taking stuff other people had managed to upload and passing it off as if he'd managed to obtain it. Said thread is here, and ends with the artist formerly known as 'gradynz' saying 'it seems as if some of you don't like people at all'.

It's part of what I describe as 'the post-GMB Gallery' - before GMB launched criticism was rife, accepted and the done thing; since the brief period of extreme pettiness (GMB-mockers down rating each other) there has emerged a criticism (and largely 'senior' member) free zone. Here, one group of mockers mark everything as 'amazing' and 'broadcast quality' while those who offer criticism and advice are shouted down for 'personal attacks' and being 'over the top'. Maybe in the same way that New Labour is being replaced by Old Labour, the New Gallery (New Danger) should be replaced by the Old Gallery. Maybe it's time for the old gallery stalwarts to take it back to its original purpose. (#Satire)

[Philip]

Can we just close the mocks forum for six months or something. It's worn out.

[SomeRandomStuff]

I didnt really want to put this over there as its not something i particularly wanted to share on a public forum, but i have Aspergers.

Mindful of the level of animosity to any criticism and having, i think, spent over an hour typing and retyping what i thought was a perfectly reasonable finished post. I was utterly stunned by the negative response. Most hurtful was the suggestion from Brekkie that i lack basic manners. Whilst some of those i respect on here have been quick to defend me, and i appreciate their support, the feeling that i somehow stepped over a line still cuts very deep.

I guess i will just have to chalk this unfortunate incident up to the fact that i'm not actually typing in English, but Aspergese, and my post was lost in translation.

Can we just close the mocks forum for six months or something. It's worn out.

Not sure how i feel about closing it, but its definitely worn out.

Now the suggestion is that the bar is set too high. I remember a time when every single mock was really high quality and the discussion was typically about the idea. Now the 'idea' behind the mock is apparently unnecessary and users, most of them seemingly schoolchildren, are just posting random junk without any thought. What makes it worse are the apologists who praise the mediocrity and jump down the throat of anyone who expresses even a whiff of a negative opinion. Whist i concede peoples tastes differ, i cant be the only one baffled by what people consider to be good these days. How far that place as fallen. No wonder the sane majority stays away.

[woah]

I wouldn't feel badly about it - personally I don't think you crossed a line at all, rather NZnewswatch hugely overreacted. Yes your post was fairly blunt, but from reading further posts you intended it to be so, and I think to get the message across to some of the users in the mocks forum that's the only way to get through to them sometimes.

It's a complicated issue because it's really the only place where you can mock up TV graphics, studios, sets. and people will actually look and respond in anyvolume hence why the younger members/mockers continue to post new mocks despite negative feedback. I think they feel determined to prove themselves and meet the supposed quality 'benchmark'. The problem is because they're younger they don't always have the eye for where things are wrong and genuinely believe what they have made is of a really high standard. That and being slightly less mature because of their age means they don't deal with negative comments well - they think they've made something fantastic and everyone is just being picky and difficult instead of giving them genuine advice. I think some of the mockers are also somewhere on the autistic spectrum, which can have similar effects I believe.

I don't think bluntness is a problem when it's constructive to get the message across - however I do think some members can be a bit antagonistic and overly rude to the younger mockers, rather than constructive sometimes. But I believe is caused by the frustration of repeated poor quality mocks where previous feedback hasn't been listened to.

Hence the problem - it's not something you can really stop directly because you can't really ban 'younger members' or 'poor quality mocks' from the forums. I think an idea might be creating some clear general guidelines for mocks - such as safe areas - that are mandatory. Plus, a member should only be able to post a mock every 2/3 months - if a mock breaks any of the guidelines then they have to wait an additional month to post their next. I think that might force some of the mockers to put a little more thought into what they are putting together.

[gottago]

From the Cilla thread:

when I heard the news, I was like OMG this can't be happening, she is unarguably a national treasure folks

Brilliant.

[wells]

I actually like the female pairing on the evening news prog. It suits the time of day.

What does that mean?