Olympics. Meh.

[eoin]

So are you actually a member of the Continuity IRA or are you just going on and on and on and on and on and on about this for some other reason?

I'm with marksi, here, bored to tears.

Why not go back to discussing the Olympics?

By all means, and sorry for hijacking once again. No terrorist organisations involved, promise. I just have a little too much time on my hands today and I tend to get a tad involved in technical arguments.

[Chie]

Finding it difficult to care, really. There's an opening ceremony, people win some medals, everyone goes home. Repeat in four years' time, and again four years after that, and again four years after that... *yawn*

Sorry for being negative again, had a migraine for the last three days. Will post something positive when the agony's over.

[Sput]

There's an opening ceremony, people win some medals, everyone goes home.

If you take away the middle one then it's basically the royal wedding, and you LOVED that, so I would suggest switching off in between these bits in order to remain positive.

[Alexia]

After I've gone into a great deal of detail explaining to you exactly why it is wrong to use Eire you have steadfastly refused to acknowledge it in the face of all the evidence I have presented you with and despite the fact that I, actually being Irish, might be better positioned to know about this than you.

Tá tú ag éileamh go bhfaighidh muintir na hÉireann an leagan Gaeilge ar ionsaitheacha Éirinn nuair a labhairt le linn eachtrannaigh. Mbonn seo tú ar roinnt píosa reachtaíochta a bhí outlawed go 2 bhliain sular rugadh mé fiú, dá bhrí sin, rindreáil mo úsáid de sna téarmaí sin nach mbaineann le hábhar go hiomlán leis an bplé.

Níl mé ag dul go n-ardóidh le do bhaoite ar bith níos mó, toisc go bhfuil mé Mhínigh mo cúiseanna ag baint úsáide as Éire, atá cosúil leat féin gan feidhm a bheith acu, flatly dhiúltú cad ba mhaith liom a léirmhíniú mar compliment ar do thír álainn agus teanga álainn. Níl sé chun idirdhealú a dhéanamh, ar leithligh nó politicize, ach stádas tosaíocht a thabhairt do theanga Cheilteach eile. Níl mé ag dul a leithscéal as bheith ina romanticist cultúrtha agus socheolaíochta, ná tá mé ag dul a leithscéal as gan chuimhneamh ar féidir leat a luaigh reachtanna stairiúil ársa go bhfuil aon ábhartha maidir leis an pholaitíocht nua-aimseartha, agus ní raibh mé in ann aon eolas roimh ré.

[Nick Harvey]

If you take away the middle one then it's basically the royal wedding, and you LOVED that, so I would suggest switching off in between these bits in order to remain positive.

Oh, which race is Pippa Middleton in? I might have to watch.

[bilky asko]

After I've gone into a great deal of detail explaining to you exactly why it is wrong to use Eire you have steadfastly refused to acknowledge it in the face of all the evidence I have presented you with and despite the fact that I, actually being Irish, might be better positioned to know about this than you.

Tá tú ag éileamh go bhfaighidh muintir na hÉireann an leagan Gaeilge ar ionsaitheacha Éirinn nuair a labhairt le linn eachtrannaigh. Mbonn seo tú ar roinnt píosa reachtaíochta a bhí outlawed go 2 bhliain sular rugadh mé fiú, dá bhrí sin, rindreáil mo úsáid de sna téarmaí sin nach mbaineann le hábhar go hiomlán leis an bplé.

Níl mé ag dul go n-ardóidh le do bhaoite ar bith níos mó, toisc go bhfuil mé Mhínigh mo cúiseanna ag baint úsáide as Éire, atá cosúil leat féin gan feidhm a bheith acu, flatly dhiúltú cad ba mhaith liom a léirmhíniú mar compliment ar do thír álainn agus teanga álainn. Níl sé chun idirdhealú a dhéanamh, ar leithligh nó politicize, ach stádas tosaíocht a thabhairt do theanga Cheilteach eile. Níl mé ag dul a leithscéal as bheith ina romanticist cultúrtha agus socheolaíochta, ná tá mé ag dul a leithscéal as gan chuimhneamh ar féidir leat a luaigh reachtanna stairiúil ársa go bhfuil aon ábhartha maidir leis an pholaitíocht nua-aimseartha, agus ní raibh mé in ann aon eolas roimh ré.

No hablo irlandés, señor.

Your assumptions are correct.

...

Therefore, "Ireland" and "Éire" are 100% correct, and "Republic of Ireland" is 100% correct if only used as a differentiating descriptor.

What makes you think you can assert this with such certainty? The internationally recognised English language name of the Irish state is simply Ireland, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Éire is not correct when speaking English, much as Nippon is not how you would refer to Japan. Republic of Ireland is a valid, but unnecessary, description of the state, but not its name.

Apologies for not responding earlier, but your selective quotation seems to miss the point rather.

The Republic of Ireland descriptor is useful for the general public, who still view the UK as a group of countries. It's not official, but "the UK" is not the official name of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". It is useful to say "the UK"

The official English name is Ireland. The official Irish name of Ireland is Éire. Both are therefore official and correct. I am making no comment upon which is preferable in English.

EDIT:

Ireland
is an island, comprising Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. We should no longer use Ulster as a synonym for Northern Ireland (one reason is that Northern Ireland has six counties whereas Ulster has nine) though "the province" remains acceptable on second reference.

This may explain the BBC's usage of "Irish Republic".

[Sput]

Haven't read the excruciatingly detailed parts of this thread Re: Eire (which, IMO is something I've previously only heard pedantic people use to try and sound intelligent) but I have the distinct impression, Alexia, that you are insisting you will keep using a term of reference that you now KNOW offends some people. Do I have that right? If so, it's really rather unclassy of you..

[Critique]

None of this will matter if the world ends in 14 minutes, anyway. It's not going to, but I thought I'd point it out.

[Alexia]

Haven't read the excruciatingly detailed parts of this thread Re: Eire (which, IMO is something I've previously only heard pedantic people use to try and sound intelligent) but I have the distinct impression, Alexia, that you are insisting you will keep using a term of reference that you now KNOW offends some people. Do I have that right? If so, it's really rather unclassy of you..

God no. I don't want to offend anyone. And we only have Eoin's word that it offends people, and he doesn't speak for all Irishmen and women. Besides, his incessant shrieking about it despite my assertion that I have never been bound by, nor did I ever have knowledge of, the law that was rescinded in 1981 which seems to be the basis for his almost exaggerated pseudo-hysteria, leaves me disinterested in his argument. I don't give two hoots if he wishes to perpetuate this frankly ludicrous complaint further by deliberately allowing himself to be offended despite all my indications to the contrary. That's his problem, not mine.

[Nick Harvey]

And we only have Eoin's word that it offends people, and he doesn't speak for all Irishmen and women.

Very briefly, not to drag this out too much further, but I've spoken to six Irish (from south of the border) people today and specifically asked the question. NONE of them are/were offended by it being called Eire and NONE of them share Eoin's definition of the derivation of the, so-called, problem.

[Sput]

In a more philosophical vein, then: how many people must be offended before it's worthy of your consideration?

Eoin has flagged up that some unknown number of people dislike it (and Google agrees), so surely the sensible option is to be mindful of it in future rather than dismiss his problem as hysterical, especially when "eire" is less likely to be understood in conversation than "Ireland" anyway! To me, at least, it just seems like the classy and sensible option.

I also wonder if Irish feelings don't perhaps run a little higher than ours for this kind of thing, for somewhat understandable reasons. I once met a random young Irishman in Charlestown that *hated* my Englishness for centuries-old reasons that are still not entirely clear to me. Fantastically, his name was Paddy and he was drunk at the time and trying to commandeer a dormant mobile disco rig, but I digress...