Coronavirus - Strange times

james2001
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Jonwo wrote: Sat 15 Jan, 2022 01.51 In terms of restrictions, Ireland's restriction that nothing can be open after 8pm is rather daft although the NPHET actually wanted a 5pm curfew which the Irish Government resisted.
Seeing as Ireland's per capita case rate is currently double that of the UK's, I think that tells you how effective it is.
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WillPS
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What I don't get about these curfews... surely it just compresses demand in to a shorter period meaning those places are busier the hours they remain open?

As an example, in the first lockdown when Tesco were shutting the shops at 10 rather than midnight/not at all - the shops were much busier, particularly in the 2030-2200 period, than they were a few weeks later when they moved to closing at midnight.
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james2001
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So much about the last couple of years has been so ill thought out, I don't think we'll be looking back on as a success in the coming years. The cerfews making more people congregate in larger groups at an earlier time rather than spread out over a longer period is just one part.

I have a feeling we'll be suffering from the negative effects of lockdowns and other restrictions, especially on the younger generations, for decades to come. I can see us having a very maladjusted generation when the current schoolkids become adults as a result, not to mention all the health problems that are likely to come as a result of many doctors all but barricading themselves off from the world (as I mentioned before, a family member died last year whose cancer diagnosis was delayed for 3 months as a result of his doctors fobbing him off with phone and e-consultations and being reluctant to see people for anything that wasn't covid- and that was over the summer of 2020 when cases were minimal, so it's not like they were overwhelmed and couldn't deal with him). I feel like the last couple of years has been so heavy handed that it's caused much more damage than it prevented, though it's going to take many years until that properly becomes clear.
cwathen
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WillPS wrote:What I don't get about these curfews... surely it just compresses demand in to a shorter period meaning those places are busier the hours they remain open?
This Will, will probably go down in Metropol history as one of the very few occasions were you and I are in total agreement. Let's remember this moment.
james2001 wrote:I have a feeling we'll be suffering from the negative effects of lockdowns and other restrictions, especially on the younger generations, for decades to come.
That's baked in now. Essentially we have rejected normality and caused insane damage to society so that the NHS would be 'protected' and notionally we have 'saved lives' which means at best saving the 0.6% of the population that was actually at risk in the first place. And that 0.6% might well be a very, very upwardly adjusted number on the basis that it assumes A) Scientific modelling that '500000 people would die without a lockdown' was actually accurate in the first place given how much over-modelling has become apparent over the past couple of years, and B) disregards how many people who are on the Covid death toll that had seriously underlying health conditions that were already going to kill them and all other things being equal would be dead by now anyway.

There's no 'feeling' about it, our actions over the past 2 years will cause a decades-long destruction of the society we had pre-Covid which will damage people's futures, could take out entire sectors of the economy, and ultimately will cause death (which will already have started by now). Almost certainly far more people now have their lives ruined and possibly more people may die prematurely than if we asked more questions before we went down this path and concluded that the sad reality is that no Western society could afford to make it's healthcare system more important than normality because if they did then the result would be...well...this.
james2001
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Part of the problem is, far too many people are still stuck in the lockdown mentality. Nearly every day I hear from someone who thinks we should at least bring back masks every winter (and even some who think they should be a permanent part of our lives- so many people seem to have made masking part of their identity), now the idea that "restrictions to protect health services" mentality has been ingrained on society, it's going to be hard to get rid of.

Last week I read last week Fauci saying that mandatory masks on planes are here to stay... which gave me a major anxiety attack. Admittedly he's only one person, but he's a very powerful and influential one, and he's not the only one who thinks that way. One of the things that's been keeping me going is the thought of being able to travel again soon and be able to see people and places I haven't been able to over the last two years, and as long as mandatory plane masking is a thing, that's not going to happen. As someone who can't wear masks without severe anxiety, and the hopps I need to jump though to claim an exemption as well as the thought of challenges, hostility and abuse from staff and passengers even if the exemption is granted creates just as much anxiety, airline travel is closed to me as long as mandatory masks are a thing, and comments like this from people like Fauci just aren't helpful.
cwathen
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james2001 wrote: Sat 15 Jan, 2022 22.41 Part of the problem is, far too many people are still stuck in the lockdown mentality. Nearly every day I hear from someone who thinks we should at least bring back masks every winter (and even some who think they should be a permanent part of our lives), now the idea that "restrictions to protect health services" mentality has been ingrained on society, it's going to be hard to get rid of.
People are moving on from it though. I remember during the first Lockdown where eradication was thought a possibility and reading the views of people who felt that lockdown could not be released until 'no more new cases for at least 2 weeks' and were calling for the army to implement checkpoints in/out of their town to prevent outsiders bringing the virus in. No one is saying that now. And more rationally, no part of the UK government is pursuing regionalised tiered restrictions any more (beyond differing rules between devolved nations) whereas these once were thought to be viable ways of managing the situation.

I remember that when the businesses which didn't actually have to close in the first place started to realise how daft it was that they voluntarily shut, and so started reopening in May 2020 a month before non-essential retail was permitted to reopen that people felt it was yet another crime tantamount to genocide to be allowed to purchase fast food from the socially distanced confines of your car and that both the businesses trading and their patrons should burn in hell for daring to venture out of the house so frivolously. No one is saying that now...and those businesses affected didn't close down in Lockdown II and IIi.

I remember being told in 2020 that essentially we could never return to how things were pre-pandemic and when the pandemic eventually passed we wouldn't have normality back, but a 'new normal' in which things had changed and our lives were less free. Whilst we can never undo what has happened and it will shape things going forward...no one is saying that now. We are instead back to judging normality as to where things were pre-pandemic and striving to get back there, rather than some 'new normal'.

And when it comes down to Omicron, I honestly believe/hope that this will be the last wave where restrictions are viewed as the obvious and correct course of action. Hopefully next time, there will not be any appetite for restrictions either in government or in the views of the general population.

Normality isn't gone yet James. We will get it back if we keep fighting for it.
james2001
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I don't know, it was only a couple of weeks ago I was arguing with someone who was insulting me for not being able to wear a mask and telling me "normality is never coming back". And only yesterday someone I know (vaguely) in the US was calling for all big events to be cancelled for the forseeable future and getting outraged the US is planning on telling hospitals they're likely to no longer need to report daily death numbers in the near future. The mentality's still out there, sadly, even if it's not as prevalent as it was.

Admittedly on the flip side, I have seen some some who had previously been gung-ho for restrictions now just wanting it to be over, but they're outnumbered by those who were pro-restriction who haven't changed their stance.
Joe
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Honestly I wonder what circles some forumers mix in where these things are even discussed. My chats are mostly about last night’s TV and how annoying my colleagues are
Jonwo
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TBH the people who want restrictions to be kept on an ongoing basis either are scientists who have extreme views and likely have no understanding of the real world or people who don't realise how costly it is to keep businesses restricted or closed.
WillPS wrote: Sat 15 Jan, 2022 21.31 What I don't get about these curfews... surely it just compresses demand in to a shorter period meaning those places are busier the hours they remain open?

As an example, in the first lockdown when Tesco were shutting the shops at 10 rather than midnight/not at all - the shops were much busier, particularly in the 2030-2200 period, than they were a few weeks later when they moved to closing at midnight.
It's a very stupid restriction because viruses don't suddenly become less infectious after a certain period, all it does is damage businesses economically. I suspect the Irish Government were reluctant to close more businesses because that means more support has to be provided and ultimately we will see the economists within governments starting to overrule the health experts.
cwathen wrote: Sat 15 Jan, 2022 22.37
There's no 'feeling' about it, our actions over the past 2 years will cause a decades-long destruction of the society we had pre-Covid which will damage people's futures, could take out entire sectors of the economy, and ultimately will cause death (which will already have started by now). Almost certainly far more people now have their lives ruined and possibly more people may die prematurely than if we asked more questions before we went down this path and concluded that the sad reality is that no Western society could afford to make it's healthcare system more important than normality because if they did then the result would be...well...this.
Things will bounce back, they always do after major shocks like previous pandemics and wars. Things will change but society has never stayed the same. If anything, it made me appreciate the likes of live entertainment, holidays and just going out in general which I took for granted before. No sane person will want to just stay at home, order takeaway and watch TV or streaming services, that gets very boring very quickly.
all new Phil
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Well this thread has cheered me up.
Thought this was a nice forum, clearly not.
Philip
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james2001 wrote: Sat 15 Jan, 2022 23.04 I don't know, it was only a couple of weeks ago I was arguing with someone who was insulting me for not being able to wear a mask and telling me "normality is never coming back".
I genuinely, genuinely wonder who these people are and why you continue to talk to them when they clearly have an opposite and extreme view to yours, and make you get so anxious about this? If they’re online as I suspect, on Facebook or something - just stop talking to them.

I’m sure you’ve been told on this forum to stop reading so much about Covid as it’s clearly putting you in a bad place mentally. I suggest go and do things you enjoy instead - read a book, listen to an album, go for a walk, or whatever you like doing to take your mind off things.
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