2015 UK Election

[barcode]

The number of councilors is neither here nor there, frankly.

Well I'm not the one talking about them I' am? maybe you should direct you comment to the person who first highlight that point.

Just as Salmond and Sturgeon have argued that a Conservative government will never speak for the Scottish people, the same is true for the people of the North of England.

That a bit of a sweeping statement; and you really should have including "Certain" since there many Tory areas in the North of England, especial since there are plenty of Tory MP who won over 50% of the vote.

You're coming across more than a little entitled. Scottish people have a voice in "UK parliament" too, just the same as everyone else.

How i'am coming across more than a little entitled? unless you getting that from my last post, which again you seem to have mist what some said to me earlier and I was putting in a rebuttal, and what I said was all correct.

Scottish people have a voice in "UK parliament" too, just the same as everyone else.

Your are correct. Everytone in the kingdom has the same voice.

I still want to hear why you think someone a mile north of the border is any less represented by their MP in Westminster than someone a mile south of the border.

I don't think that, I would like to know how you came up with this idea. I keep on asking why some people in England seem to feel hard done by? and why English votes for English matters keeps on coming up, which is even more redundant now since the Government only has ONE Scottish MP, yay he's the one that going to cause all the trouble....
Tell me how many times did the 11 Scottish government MP help to get thought stuff which was not liked? Do the English feel hard done by, with all the stuff Scotland spends its money on? Of course there plenty of stuff England spends money on which the people of Scotland and Wales don't get.

And now people are saying there switched to the Tories because there did not want SNP helping to run the UK government along with Labour. SNP made it clear it would not vote on English matters, expect on where it would result in budget changes.

So my point still stand; As far as I can see there have a pretty powerful voice already, and English votes for English matters it complete waste of time unless its to stir up trouble.

[WillPS]

Go on, continue to tell me that I should welcome a Tory government reigning supreme over the North.

[barcode]

Thats what your saying , not me. Your the one saying stuff like "Supreme over the North" Tory government will NEVER speak for the people of the north of England. As much as you may hate it, You can clearly see BLUE, maybe not be as much as RED but there is defo around 40 seats, and a good number of those seats got over 50% vote.

Your now having a go for something I never said, and for the fact I point out a fact.

[bilky asko]

SNP made it clear it would not vote on English matters, expect on where it would result in budget changes.

That depends entirely upon the SNP's definition. What would have stopped them from trying it on at every turn?

[barcode]

SNP made it clear it would not vote on English matters, expect on where it would result in budget changes.

That depends entirely upon the SNP's definition. What would have stopped them from trying it on at every turn?

That can work the other way.... If the SNP are being pricks the other 500 odd Mps could vote down stuff which would benafit Scotland.

[bilky asko]

SNP made it clear it would not vote on English matters, expect on where it would result in budget changes.

That depends entirely upon the SNP's definition. What would have stopped them from trying it on at every turn?

That can work the other way.... If the SNP are being pricks the other 500 odd Mps could vote down stuff which would benafit Scotland.

But, of course, not affecting devolved issues.

[all new Phil]

Go on, continue to tell me that I should welcome a Tory government reigning supreme over the North.

But I presume you'd be happy with a Labour government reigning supreme over the South?

[dosxuk]

I still want to hear why you think someone a mile north of the border is any less represented by their MP in Westminster than someone a mile south of the border.

I don't think that, I would like to know how you came up with this idea.

But that's what you keep saying - that the person just north of the border has a fifth of the representation of the person just south of the border because of the sizes of the respective countries. You're ignoring the fact that both people only have one MP and that MP is just as likely to represent them regardless of which side of the border they live.

I keep on asking why some people in England seem to feel hard done by?

Probably because a very large part of England do not beleive in Conservative values and don't want to be led by them.

and why English votes for English matters keeps on coming up, which is even more redundant now since the Government only has ONE Scottish MP, yay he's the one that going to cause all the trouble....

You realise all MPs get to vote right? The idea behind EVEL is that all MPs outside England don't get to vote on laws which only affect England, not just the ones who are in the majority party.

Tell me how many times did the 11 Scottish government MP help to get thought stuff which was not liked? Do the English feel hard done by, with all the stuff Scotland spends its money on? Of course there plenty of stuff England spends money on which the people of Scotland and Wales don't get.

Yes, lots of people in England do feel hard done by. There's a higher spend per head that one mile north of the border than there is to the south, in virtually the same economic conditions.

And now people are saying there switched to the Tories because there did not want SNP helping to run the UK government along with Labour. SNP made it clear it would not vote on English matters, expect on where it would result in budget changes.

That message never made it out to the wider public. This is certainly the first I've heard of it.

On the contrary, I've heard lots of the conspiracy theory that the SNP will block English-only laws in order to force the government into giving them another referendum, but I'm not buying that either.

So my point still stand; As far as I can see there have a pretty powerful voice already, and English votes for English matters it complete waste of time unless its to stir up trouble.

Every MP's voice is as powerful as every other MP. Every person in this country only has one MP. It's ridiculous to suggest that because someone is in country (a) with one MP, that MP is more powerful than the MP for someone in country (b).

-------------

Personally, I'm now of the opinion we should scrap the devolved nations, and instead give the powers they had to individual areas of the United Kingdom. There shouldn't be this separate level of Government for certain areas and not others, where that level, if you're amongst the lucky ones, can make your life much better than what the rest of us are forced to live.

[barcode]

Personally, I'm now of the opinion we should scrap the devolved nations, and instead give the powers they had to individual areas of the United Kingdom. There shouldn't be this separate level of Government for certain areas and not others, where that level, if you're amongst the lucky ones, can make your life much better than what the rest of us are forced to live.

That sounds exactly what Tam Dalyell, has said, and all this trouble started with the Tories started getting rid of all those big powerful councils that dealt with housing, eduction, roads etc .

I have kept a clip of it: http://up.metropol247.co.uk/barcode/Tam ... in%20Q.mp3 From Jermey Vine show back in Late September.

[WillPS]

Thats what your saying , not me. Your the one saying stuff like "Supreme over the North" Tory government will NEVER speak for the people of the north of England. As much as you may hate it, You can clearly see BLUE, maybe not be as much as RED but there is defo around 40 seats, and a good number of those seats got over 50% vote.

Your now having a go for something I never said, and for the fact I point out a fact.

Your argument (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I freely admit I have difficulty understanding you) is that people in England do not require a mid-level of government akin to the Scottish Parliament or Welsh Assembley, because we are adequately represented by Westmister.

Leaving aside the fact that's a weird argument since exactly the same is true of Scotland, I am pointing out that that is nonsense. 2015 is the Tory's strongest Parliamentary result in 20 years, and yet even then, that map I showed you is overwhelmingly red. Look at any election in the modern era (even in Labour's Wilderness years) and you'll see the same thing is true.

I am not arguing that Yorkshire/the North East/the North should have a Yorkshire/NE/Northern Parliament with no Tories; I am saying there should be *something* that reflects the fact that, as with Scotland, NI and Wales, our political interests up here are consistently different from the South West/South East. Of course there would be some Tories; but unless the whole thing is entirely stitched up the Tories would never be in overall control; just as they have never been in Scotland.

Go on, continue to tell me that I should welcome a Tory government reigning supreme over the North.

But I presume you'd be happy with a Labour government reigning supreme over the South?

Of course, I would prefer for Westminster to be controlled by Labour; but I would absolutely support those in the SW/SE outside London who would want some sort of representation of their differing views. The issue would always be drawing the boundaries in a fair way.

NB - in the 8 or so elections I have taken part in, I have only voted for Labour once - and then only because the only alternative on the ballot paper was a Tory.

[barcode]

Thats what your saying , not me. Your the one saying stuff like "Supreme over the North" Tory government will NEVER speak for the people of the north of England. As much as you may hate it, You can clearly see BLUE, maybe not be as much as RED but there is defo around 40 seats, and a good number of those seats got over 50% vote.

Your now having a go for something I never said, and for the fact I point out a fact.

Your argument (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I freely admit I have difficulty understanding you) is that people in England do not require a mid-level of government akin to the Scottish Parliament or Welsh Assembley, because we are adequately represented by Westmister.

Part of my response is "England do not require a mid-level of government akin to the Scottish Parliament or Welsh Assembley, because " There rejected the idea ten years ago. As much as you hate this other response, The Tories do have a Bed rock of voters mainly in England, that is where its core vote is While Labours is/was spread across the kingdom. Because of where live you are out voted by the rest of the uk.

Personnel FPTP is awful and badly needs reform, but would highly recommeond AMS, which is what Holyrood uses, which keeps FPTP in place, but clamps on PR.