Public Transport in your particular part of the region

thegeek
Posts: 767
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 12.35

Jonwo wrote: Sat 04 Jun, 2022 14.01 I find the payment system for tickets outside of London so confusing. The Oyster system is so simple to use, I'm surprised TfL haven't tried licensing it to the other parts of England as it would earn them some much needed dosh.
It gets complicated where there are multiple operators involved. We went to Pollok Park, and could get either First or McGills buses - in theory I could have got a Glasgow Tripper ticket (if I had a suitable ITSO card) but it's 50p more than a FirstDay and also less cost effective than the family ticket I bought. But then that meant we were locked into getting a First bus back.

If I wanted to make a journey by bus then train then that's two separate tickets, going by subway would mean a third. It's possible to put it all on the same smartcard but that's not what's causing the friction here, it's thinking about the simplest way to make my journey (and how much flexibility I have in coming back the same way or by a different mode without it costing me more).

The joy of Oyster (and contactless) is not having to think about any of that, and knowing that I can take whatever route I want and the system will sort it out. But that only works when you've got a TfL sorting out revenue allocations, and your Firsts, Stagecoaches and assorted rail operators aren't going to do it voluntarily if it means less money for them.
BBC TV Centre
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu 29 Apr, 2021 22.35

thegeek wrote: Sun 05 Jun, 2022 07.00
Jonwo wrote: Sat 04 Jun, 2022 14.01 I find the payment system for tickets outside of London so confusing. The Oyster system is so simple to use, I'm surprised TfL haven't tried licensing it to the other parts of England as it would earn them some much needed dosh.
It gets complicated where there are multiple operators involved. We went to Pollok Park, and could get either First or McGills buses - in theory I could have got a Glasgow Tripper ticket (if I had a suitable ITSO card) but it's 50p more than a FirstDay and also less cost effective than the family ticket I bought. But then that meant we were locked into getting a First bus back.

If I wanted to make a journey by bus then train then that's two separate tickets, going by subway would mean a third. It's possible to put it all on the same smartcard but that's not what's causing the friction here, it's thinking about the simplest way to make my journey (and how much flexibility I have in coming back the same way or by a different mode without it costing me more).

The joy of Oyster (and contactless) is not having to think about any of that, and knowing that I can take whatever route I want and the system will sort it out. But that only works when you've got a TfL sorting out revenue allocations, and your Firsts, Stagecoaches and assorted rail operators aren't going to do it voluntarily if it means less money for them.
And so the nail was hit on the head for reversal of privatisation of local bus services, without one central body in charge.

I'm just outside of London on the Surrey borders and we have the same issue on some routes where there has been "competition" and a few bus companies trying to undercut each other. Nobody ever really wins, passengers get confused by the array of fares and tickets and just want a bus to get them from A to B and reliabily, which is what TFL do pretty well. As a result of such competition, there is now one route and a return ticket costs up to £6.50.

Versus TFL - £1.65 buys you a journey, no matter how short or long it is, and if you have to switch buses within the hour, it won't cost you any more. You can tap in with something you already have (a bank card or device) and your journey is open once you are within the TFL zonal system.

I don't agree with yet another smartcard-based system where you have to convert "your" money into "their" money. Why not just use what people have (a contactless bank card or device) as a token and have the infrastructure calculate the fares?

I read up on the Glasgow Tripper ticket and all this having to wait 2 weeks for your card to be shipped, then you have to arse around with registering and topping it up online and then waiting 4 hours for you ticket to be active. Sheesh.
What happens when my ticket has expired?

Simply buy another one! Log on to your Tripper account and add another ticket. We ask that you leave at least four hourse between purchasing your ticket online, and activating it on the bus.

If the 4hr window does not suit your travel plans, remember that you can also buy a Tripper Day ticket on the bus too.
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Nick Harvey
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BBC TV Centre wrote: We ask that you leave at least four hourse between purchasing your ticket online, and activating it on the bus.
So do you have to ride the four horses until you can use the bus?
Martin Phillp
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Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 01.28

Brighton & Hove Buses (Go-Ahead) have a contactless fare scheme which caps at £19pw until the 26th June.

https://www.buses.co.uk/flexi-fares
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Jonwo
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 02.05

Martin Phillp wrote: Sun 05 Jun, 2022 19.36 Brighton & Hove Buses (Go-Ahead) have a contactless fare scheme which caps at £19pw until the 26th June.

https://www.buses.co.uk/flexi-fares
That's cheaper than the London buses weekly cap which is £23.30 and that's with hopper fare as well.
thegeek
Posts: 767
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 12.35

BBC TV Centre wrote: Sun 05 Jun, 2022 12.12 I don't agree with yet another smartcard-based system where you have to convert "your" money into "their" money. Why not just use what people have (a contactless bank card or device) as a token and have the infrastructure calculate the fares?

I read up on the Glasgow Tripper ticket and all this having to wait 2 weeks for your card to be shipped, then you have to arse around with registering and topping it up online and then waiting 4 hours for you ticket to be active. Sheesh.
I think because people looked at the Oyster system and (eventually) said "we'll have a bit of that", oblivious to the fact that Oyster was in the process of being replaced with something smarter. I think TfL have even said that Oyster was only ever intended to be a stepping stone to something bank card-based, it's just that what they wanted wasn't possible in 2002 so they had to built their own.

In theory (and I think this was a Scottish Government mandate), you can load any smart product onto any Scottish operator's ITSO card. Except it's not as simple as that - I have a Glasgow Subway card, and it's registered against my account on the Subway website so I can buy credit or passes there; and the Scotrail website has also let me associate it to my account so I can buy rail tickets on it. But I can't register it on the Glasgow Tripper site to buy, say, a weekly bus pass (though I can buy a one-day bus pass on a bus, should the driver know how to do that). Nor can I register a Glasgow Tripper smartcard on the Subway website to buy tickets there, but I maybe can in a station. It's a mess.

Oh, and it's worth mentioning that the Strathclyde area does have a zone-based multimodal ticketing option, the Zonecard. Except it's still paper-based, and not available for periods of less than a week, and always starts on a Sunday.

I wonder if there's someone at Transport Scotland who's actually satisfied with the current state of affairs, or has actually been trying to improve matters but has found too many brick walls in the way.
Jonwo
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Joined: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 02.05

It does surprise me that the likes of Transport Scotland struggle with streamlining the process for payment considering it's a much smaller population pool compared to London.
Martin Phillp
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Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 01.28

If it wasn't for me getting discounted bus travel which is linked to my Oyster card, I would have gone fully contactless by now.

But I use it for rail journeys within London and the fact that the western section of the Elizabeth line is Contactless (and paper tickets) rather than Oyster shows where the future lies.

There has to be a point where TfL can move all adult discounts linked to a contactless card, leaving Oyster tech for children along with disabled and older persons Freedom Passes. (I think One Day Bus Passes are now on a throwaway Oyster card as well?)
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gottago
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

Martin Phillp wrote: Fri 10 Jun, 2022 02.23 If it wasn't for me getting discounted bus travel which is linked to my Oyster card, I would have gone fully contactless by now.

But I use it for rail journeys within London and the fact that the western section of the Elizabeth line is Contactless (and paper tickets) rather than Oyster shows where the future lies.

There has to be a point where TfL can move all adult discounts linked to a contactless card, leaving Oyster tech for children along with disabled and older persons Freedom Passes. (I think One Day Bus Passes are now on a throwaway Oyster card as well?)
Maybe though the fact they had to backtrack on scrapping coin operated ticket machines because there's such a sizable number of users without a bank account suggests that scrapping Oyster for the masses probably won't happen in the near future.

I still use Oyster because of my railcard discount which I'll lose in January. I'm amazed they're still yet to implement that onto contactless. I might be completely wrong here but I'm sure I read years ago that something like a third of each Oyster fare goes to the legacy Oyster technology company whereas TfL gets the lot from contactless payments (minus the card processing fee of course).
Jonwo
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 02.05

I don't expect Oyster to be scrapped for at least another decade and even then, I don't think TfL will get rid of it entirely because it'll be used for Zip, Freedom Passes etc

I think the future of ticketing on public transport is a mix of contactless, smart cards and e tickets.
Martin Phillp
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Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 01.28

Apparently the remaining Class 315 units used on the eastern section of the Elizabeth line out of Liverpool Street mainline will be taken out of service in September when through services into the tunnel to Paddington commence. Those peak Liverpool Street mainline station services will have 345s instead.

It looks like the Heathrow and Reading services will start from Abbey Wood while Shenfield services will terminate at Paddington.
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