Tony Martin (again)

[Gavin Scott]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-22477176

Norfolk farmer Tony Martin, who was jailed for shooting and killing a teenage burglar at his home 13 years ago, has again come face to face with attempted burglars.

This time the would-be robbers were grabbing £90 worth of batteries.

"I was almost in hand-to-hand contact with this person yesterday," Mr Martin said.

"But if you don't let them go, what are you to do?

"Had I stood in front of the vehicle he would have run me over.

"I could have jumped in the back of the van, but you don't know where you're going to end up - as soon as you start doing things like that you incriminate yourself."

Am I missing something here? I understand that, last time, the two men were attempting to get into his house. Although I thought he was wrong to do what he did, you can certainly justify an amount of force when someone invades your home - but what is he thinking about when it comes to £100 worth of batteries from your yard? Why in god's name would you think about leaping into the back of a van?

He must have eyeballed the licence plate number and see what these people look like. Why didn't he immediately phone the police?

[wells]

I have no time for this man. I remember when he was interviewed on Live with Angela Rippon (IIRC) on the ITV News Channel, the man didn't seem to have any compassion for the person he killed. I can't condemn for what he did as no one can really foresee how they would react in a situation such as his. But to see he wasn't sorry for the way he handled it and not regretting not doing something else instead in my opinion is a bit heartless.

[WillPS]

Normal for Norfolk.

[Alexia]

World's better off without the likes of Fred Barras in it.

[wells]

World's better off without the likes of Fred Barras in it.

The thing is, you Alexia had you had a similar sort of background to him, you may well have ended up in a similar situation.

I'm surprised you've come out with such a Daily Mail viewpoint.

[WillPS]

World's better off without the likes of Fred Barras in it.

Yes. Summary justice is the best sort, isn't it?

[iSon]

World's better off without the likes of Fred Barras in it.

Wow.

[all new Phil]

I think the guy is a moron. The initial case was simplified to the extent of bad (BOOOOOOOOO) vs good (YAAAAAAAAAY) when, to be honest, I think you have to have a pretty messed-up mind to consider that killing someone is a suitable punishment for anything. But that's just my view, and I understand why people think differently.

[Dr Lobster*]

Tony Martin, dies aged 80.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rq4evqq75o

Has the passage of time changed our views on this?

[Blewatter]

Reasonable force in that context would be hitting a robber with a bat to disarm or stun them. Guns are not reasonable. Yes, you should defend your home, but that is too far.

[Beep]

Reasonable force in that context would be hitting a robber with a bat to disarm or stun them. Guns are not reasonable. Yes, you should defend your home, but that is too far.

I disagree on that point, firearms can be legitimate uses of force to achieve a legitimate aim or lawful purpose, however the proportionality needs to be balanced against the threat and risk posed by the other person, along with the perception of the firearms holder - even if unlicenced as was this case.

If he was able to demonstrate that his honestly held belief at the time of firing those shots was that he or another's life were in imminent danger or that to shoot them would prevent a crime and they were so dangerous as to need shooting (i.e. potentially lethal force) he wouldn't have been prosecuted (i.e. they threatened him, or presented a weapon of some kind).

The lack of reasonableness came because the person he killed was trying to run away, they were not at that stage a threat. A court and jury found that he had not acted reasonably because of that simple fact, and I'm inclined to agree.

The press attempted to martyr him when in my view this was beyond protecting one's home, and turned into meting out justice using a gun he should not have had in the first place, had he simply pointed the gun at them he'd have been fine (viz. self defence, not firearms offences) - but he fired at them as they fled, and they weren't running towards another person to harm them. He also had previous for firing upon fleeing criminals, that's why his SGC was revoked in 1994, he never had a FAC which was needed for the particular shotgun he had (but claims he 'found').

My take is he was a bit of a loner, and attention seeker, who was waiting for an opportunity to put the law to the test and gain some notoriety but wanted to be seen as a victim - given the previous incident of shooting someone running away, he had been burgled many times and I think he wanted for it to happen, knowing he would potentially kill someone, for his 15 minutes of fame or gain some form of popularity.