Metropol

have any of you guys been caught up in the riots?

how well is what's happening out there being reported on tv? more trouble happening than gets reported or are they making a fuss out of nothing?

and are you tempted to grab yourself a new ipad from currys?

Fingers crossed, so far Liverpool isn't really living up to what the media have said. I'm about two minutes from the apparent troublespot, so I should soon know...

Given my upbringing, I've become apathetic to rioting - but looting isn't part of my passive experience of it, so it's just bizarre.

Ironically, I'm flying back into England from NI tomorrow...

Edinburgh city centre has been blocked by police. Came back from a fringe show and my bus (23 to Princes St) diverted to the north bridge but couldn't go down it. Driver was advised by a yellow Hi-Vis jacket person and announced we would go to Waterloo Place and then somewhere after.

I got a cab on the High Street, but as we diverted off to Market St, police were at the Council offices, and forced us to head towards Abbeyhill > Easter Road.

Rumours of a jumper off the north bridge (common enough event) seem unlikely as the diversions were much bigger, and my pal has texted to say that her taxi driver spoke of "copycat events".

Not sure what to make of that, as there's not a peep on the BBC.

I was totally supportive until I learned about the muggings and violence against people.

WillPS wrote:I was totally supportive until I learned about the muggings and violence against people.

You were supportive of mindless violence, theft and criminal damage? Yikes.

Seems to be signs of some kind of media blackout at the moment; smoke is still pouring out of SE London skyline and the noise of sirens and shouting is horrendous, yet coverage is almost non-existent.

Supportive is the wrong word, I accept. I'm not really sure what is the right word. I expected it from the moment Cameron walked in last May (and I'm surprised it's taken this long); civil unrest is inevitable when society is suffering from ideological cuts left, right and centre.

I think sympathetic is probably more like the word. I think I was naive about it though, perhaps I thought these were people trying to start some kind of revolution? Maybe that was the intention amongst some for a short time?

But yeah obviously when you move beyond fucking things up and start looting, mugging etc. it's pretty hard to condone that.

I enjoyed the downfall of Jody McIntyre. As I may have said before, just because you're in a wheelchair, doesn't mean you're not a cunt.

By arresting, or even incapacitating individuals in the crowd, the police are forced to break the line to attend to that person; and as we've seen, they simply don't have the numbers.

Well, they might have had in London last night - at the expense of the other cities. Not sure I see the logic in announcing such a thing, as that surely inspired some of the activity in Manchester last night?

Anyway, the whole thing is pretty wretched. I have zero sympathy with these criminals. Wasn't this whole thing supposed to be about the shooting of a man in London? When did the "no prospects/disenfranchised kids" thing come into play?

There's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in the UK who are suffering from the state of the economy. There are people in their 40s and 50s who have mortgages to pay and children to feed who find themselves out of work too - and they're not tanning the windows of Debenhams in to steal things.

When I were a nipper, "poor" could be seen all around. When the sole of your trainers flapped off your feet like a dog's tongue; when you didn't eat more than beans on toast for tea; when you collected glass bottles to get 5p a time - THAT was "poor with no prospects".

Kids in branded hoodies and trainers, using a contract Blackberry to liaise with fellow thugs - that's not poor.

I'm sickened by the whole thing.

Gavin Scott wrote:By arresting, or even incapacitating individuals in the crowd, the police are forced to break the line to attend to that person; and as we've seen, they simply don't have the numbers.

Well, they might have had in London last night - at the expense of the other cities. Not sure I see the logic in announcing such a thing, as that surely inspired some of the activity in Manchester last night?

Anyway, the whole thing is pretty wretched. I have zero sympathy with these criminals. Wasn't this whole thing supposed to be about the shooting of a man in London? When did the "no prospects/disenfranchised kids" thing come into play?

There's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in the UK who are suffering from the state of the economy. There are people in their 40s and 50s who have mortgages to pay and children to feed who find themselves out of work too - and they're not tanning the windows of Debenhams in to steal things.

When I were a nipper, "poor" could be seen all around. When the sole of your trainers flapped off your feet like a dog's tongue; when you didn't eat more than beans on toast for tea; when you collected glass bottles to get 5p a time - THAT was "poor with no prospects".

Kids in branded hoodies and trainers, using a contract Blackberry to liaise with fellow thugs - that's not poor.

I'm sickened by the whole thing.

Having just re-watched Citizen Kane, I only think this is appropriate:



I simply can't better that - especially the last two lines.

I was "caught up" in a disturbance in Birmingham yesterday. Much of our office had already gone home but I was working with a couple of others along with our control team until 8.00pm. From around 6.00 the problems started and it was clear the police were focussed on containing the youths rather than intervening. The Tesco next door was completely ransacked along with the Post Office below us. It made me grateful to be on the 5th Floor and have an underground car park to get away in a taxi and get straight to New Street station.

From a personal point of view, there can't have been anyone there over the age of 21 - it was clearly exploiting an opportunity as they have witnessed how police have dealt with it elsewhere and realised, at least in the short term, that they can do a bit of looting and not have to worry about PC Plod coming in and escorting them down to the station.

I don't envy the police, and I don't think it's far to criticise any officers on the ground. However, it seems that many forces are fearful of the retribution should they need to get in the thick of it and start knocking some heads together. It also shines a light on plans to cut police budgets as well - if nothing else comes out of this then I think it's a very good debate to have.

I'm in complete agreement with you, Gav. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I, too, am absolutely sickened by the actions of these thugs. Like you say, they don't know the meaning of the word 'poor'. I'm sick of hearing people excusing their actions because they live in 'poverty' and have no prospects. It may be controversial, but I really don't believe that anyone living in the UK can truly be described as being in poverty. Yes, there are inequalities in wealth and class/racial tensions, but that comes with a capitalist society. If a person can afford to eat one meal a day then I'd argue they're not living in poverty. Real poverty is what you see in developing countries; these thugs don't know how lucky they are.

I'm a firm believer in democracy and human rights, but I also think it's high time that we toughened up as a society. There's been a complete breakdown of moral values, family stability, respect for authority and respect for one's elders. Punishments need to be far, far tougher, especially in schools. If children are taught to be obedient from an early age then they become civilised adults. When I was growing up, my dad wasn't afraid to give me a smack every now and then and I learnt to respect him for it. As a result, I was also respectful of teachers at school and now as a 25-year-old, I wouldn't dream of committing acts like those we've seen in recent days or insulting a police officer.

In terms of the law, the same applies. There should be punishments that make people stop and think. Giving a murderer a 'life sentence' and then only forcing them to spend 15 years in prison is an absolute joke. Life should mean life, end of. And like James said, there needs to be an immediate u-turn with regards to the policy about cutting the police budgets. People need to know that they will get caught if they commit a crime and the only way to ensure that is to boost police numbers.

It really does make me sick to think that my grandad almost died after being shot when fighting against the Japanese in Burma during the Second World War - at the same age as these rioters, I might add - to secure the freedom of future generations. And this is the thanks he and his generation gets.