Those of you who are easily bored / put out by me, don't bother reading this!
Morena Thabo wrote:1. Is he in favour of all people INSIDE Wales being forced to learn Welsh? For all inhabitants of Wales being "forced to learn Welsh"?
It is currently compulsory up to Year 10, or age 15. I find this no more alien than being force fed French between years 7 and 9. I have never been, nor do I particularly want to go to France. So far my only use for French has been understanding snippets of Joe Le Taxi by Vanessa Paradis.
2. Does he approve of what happens in Canada, where despite being a bilingual country, and Quebec province being bilingual, both Canadian French and Canadian English can be deliberately spoken when the speakers know that the speakees do not understand the languages being used?
Of course not. That's rudeness on a scale which transcends any kind of national pride / identity and ends up doing more harm to it than good. I agree that it may happen with some of the more militant Welsh speakers, but Daily Express-esque horror stories of English people being constantly and ritually discriminated against in north Wales are just that -- exaggerated fairy tales.
3. To the best of my belief, no one in Wales who speaks Welsh – apart from some babies and very young children – does not also speak English. So what is the purpose of making Welsh an alternative official language to English?
Because it is some people's FIRST language - the language they think in, use on a daily basis, have grown up with etc. Non Welsh speaking people go on about struggling with bilingual signage on roads for example -- it works both ways. Who are the English speaking majority to force English onto a Welsh-thinking minority just because they "also" understand English?
4. Indeed, what is the purpose of any language? There is only one purpose: communication. I am steam railway enthusiast, but I do not expect to be able to choose whether my train from Paddington to Swansea/Abertawe is steam or diesel hauled, or demand it is steam hauled. Languages use evolves, just as does transport use. I do not say that my taxes should be spent on steam trains and the whole cultural baggage of steam trains just because I was brought up in the era of steam traction. But it is the cultural baggage of Welsh and Ulster-Scots (and other minority dying languages?) that meant my taxes going on Census websites and documents in these languages “The Welsh Language Board indicated in 2004 that 611,000 people (21.7% of the population of Wales in households or communal establishments) were able to speak Welsh.” – Wikipedia. That is “were able to speak Welsh” – no indication of standard or frequency. I can speak French, a bit of German and Sesotho. So what?
I'm not sure what your point is here; I believe you have used a false metaphor. It's still a train isn't it? The contents of the train haven't changed - it's still an engine and carriages going on rails between destinations with people on board? Welsh hasn't changed - it's still a language. It's contents may have changed - words have been added and been dropped.
Plus your precious taxes havn't been wasted. Currently, spending on the Welsh Language equates to 0.0018% of the UK government budget. I wouldn't say that's a huge amount - would you? (£13m out of a £710b budget - I think I've worked that out right...)
I have lived, worked and travelled in most parts of the world. Difference in language is the biggest barrier between people, between peoples. And I have learned or used other languages when working where English was not the local language. But, why make the barrier higher when there is no need to?
Really? I would say religion was the biggest barrier between peoples, and then maybe after that ethnicity. Language is way down the list. Look at Al Jazeera Balkans - transcending borders that were once bitter enemies in one single language.
5. Re "I am a proud Welshman”. From this I take it that Alexia was born in Wales, or his parents are/were Welsh. Not his choice, so why is he proud of something he had no choice in? Is he proud of having, presumably, ten toes? I was born in England, am therefore an Englishman - but proud? No.
Again, you are using a false metaphor. Ten toes is something I have in common with you (I hope!) as it's an accepted norm amongst humans. I do have a choice in being Welsh or not as my paternal grandmother was born in Poplar, South London, and was evacuated during WW2 and stayed. (Under International Rugby Board rules she would qualify on residency though!) Having done some family history recently, it seems several of my family strands have ended up over the border - Devon, Worcestershire, Somerset.... I could easily have nailed my colours to the white shirt and the red rose. But I don't identify with "Englishness" - with colliery bands and morris dancers and football and plains and fens. I identify with "Welshness" - male voice choirs, rugby and mountains. It's been a major part of my secondary socialisation. Can't change that now!
6. Re “I am proud of the fact we have one of the oldest living languages in existence.” Again, why? English is the widest spread language in existence. A cause to be proud? No. London has, at a guess, the largest urban rat population in England. Should I, as a Londoner be proud of that? Especially when it is Londoners who are largely responsible for the size of that rat population by being dirty, dropping food litter, leaving plastic rubbish bags out for the rats to scavenge? London has the oldest underground railway system in existence? Hardly a cause to be proud. And just how similar is 2011 Welsh to pre-Roman Britain Welsh? Like the old broom that has had two new handles and three new heads? What was the pre-Roman Welsh for “Rheilffordd”?
Didn't know railways existed before the Romans, except maybe in Ancient Greece. And I challenge you to be able to naturally understand Olde English / Anglo Saxon. Languages evolve. I would certainly be proud of living in a city with the oldest underground metro in the world. It's a part of your history. It shows London was a modernising, mobile, forward thinking city (transport wise) long before anyone else was. Welsh is a powerful, visual and audible symbol for Wales as a whole. It's well worth being proud of.
7. I am not sure what to make of “On a day such as today, when a whole island celebrates its cultural identity despite being brutally divided by religion and idealism......SNIP”
I believe my post was made on St Patrick's Day, rather than Census Day - my comments there related to Ireland, not Great Britain.
8. Finally, re “perhaps it is understandable the sense of importance us smaller nations place on our unique characteristics”, more interesting is what "unique characteristics" “us smaller nations” choose to discard from their pasts. Welsh cattle raiding from English farms seems to have died out. Burning “foreigners’ ” houses is not that common these days. But charging those “foreigners” to cross the Severn into Wales is still alive, along with the £100 million a year from mainly English taxpayers to fund Welsh language Channel Four TV – S4C – where in Feb 2010 no one was recorded as having watched any of 196 out of its 890 programmes.
Us natives get charged to cross the bridge too! We don't roll up our sleeves, flash our dragon tattoo and get through scott-free. The location of the toll too is irrelevant - if those bridges weren't there, you'd have to spend more than £5.20's worth of petrol to drive up to Ross on Wye and back down.
Oh yes – I may be one of those “foreigners”, but my wife is half-Welsh.
She's quite clearly the better half!
In all fairness, I respect your line of questioning, because you are not the only English person to hold these opinions. Unfortunately, it is something you will never understand, because you are not Welsh. Would you expect a lesbian to try and explain to you what it is like to be a gay woman to a straight male? As I alluded to earlier with my comment about morris dancing, there are plenty of English things I find bizarre to the point of amusement. But I wouldn't question them, because I am not English (much). I'd just accept that there are attitudes and rituals associated with a sector of society that I am not meant to, and never have been meant to, partake in. There are plenty of things MY tax dollars are being spent on that I will never benefit from (urban regeneration in inner-city English cities, promotion of other minority languages from the newer emigrant communities, new signage for the M53 etc.) but I don't worry about that. Everyone's tax isn't specific - it's all put in one big pot and then shared out. That's how government works. If you want it spent on something else, elect a new government - simples!
