Are the Tories finished before they start?

[Pete]

Chie are you sure you're not getting the words "Tory" and "Magic" mixed up?

And I think you'll find that, despite all the issues we have, we're not like Leninist Russia. Not one bit.

[wells]

Saying that if you have the pleasure of Radio 2 Jeramey vine show you would have heard the new major of Doncaster talking, ( he is an english democrat) and alot of people like what he said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 3_08_2009/

Of course what he says and what he can do are two totally different things. As this one of the best political interviews I've ever heard demonstrates.
http://andys.org.uk/media/peter_davies_ ... 6_2009.mp3

[Gavin Scott]

So - trying to tie both the current threads together - what exactly is the Tory policy on the health service?

Its become clear in the last few days that there is a very large part of the party who believe that the NHS is an anathema to modern Britain.

So what's the view from Cameron on this? What is he planning to do if and when he reaches office?

[Chie]

So what's the view from Cameron on this? What is he planning to do if and when he reaches office?

The Conservatives published a green paper on their plans to reform the NHS in June of last year. You can read all 45 pages here: http://www.conservatives.com/~/media/Fi ... hx?dl=true

There'll be more when they publish their manifesto at the start of the election campaign.

[barcode]

From the booklet:

Eight years ago, in a famous interview on David Frost’s sofa, the then Prime Minister Tony Blair committed the Labour government to matching European levels of health spending. Today, that pledge has been
delivered.

Alas it NOT been delivered! we are sitting at 8.4% Its still low compared to many other parts, I still believe spending should still be going up! to at least 9.0% - 10% it would not make a difference to this report.

strange thing is when it comes to health many other country spend more than us... and there have better system.

[Gavin Scott]

So what's the view from Cameron on this? What is he planning to do if and when he reaches office?

The Conservatives published a green paper on their plans to reform the NHS in June of last year. You can read all 45 pages here: http://www.conservatives.com/~/media/Fi ... hx?dl=true

No public service matters more to people than our National Health Service. That is why the Conservative Party has made the NHS its number one priority. We share Britain’s pride in the values which built our NHS, and we have made the unambiguous commitment to provide the funding it needs to deliver high standards of healthcare to all, free at the point of use, and according to need, not ability to pay.

How does this sit with the comments of Daniel Hannan?

Are we supposed to laugh this off as the comments of "an eccentric", as Cameron says?

I'm under no illusions about Mr Hannan's position within the party. He's hardly a "senior tory" as stated by the Labour activists - but he seems to speak for an increasingly large wing of the right who do not support Cameron's so called "progressive conservatism".

The worry from all this is that, should they win an election, won't Cameron be struggling to move any kind of progressive agenda forward with a large part of his party publicly saying that the NHS is a "60 year old joke that should be abolished"?

This could make him entirely impotent as a PM.

There'll be more when they publish their manifesto at the start of the election campaign.

Says you, Chie. If they can't even come to a meeting of the minds at this stage, I'm not holding my breath for a harmonic statement come the election.

[Chie]

How does this sit with the comments of Daniel Hannan?

Are we supposed to laugh this off as the comments of "an eccentric", as Cameron says?

I'm just glad that Conservative MPs feel they're allowed to express their own opinions, instead of toeing the party line (otherwise known as lying through your teeth) all the time. Conservative MPs share and tollerate each others views and ideas on different subjects, which seems very progressive to me.

Deviating from the official opinion isn't something you'll ever hear a serving Labour MP do and if they did, the consequences would be severe. Groupthink is compulsory - or else.

I'm under no illusions about Mr Hannan's position within the party. He's hardly a "senior tory" as stated by the Labour activists - but he seems to speak for an increasingly large wing of the right who do not support Cameron's so called "progressive conservatism".

The worry from all this is that, should they win an election, won't Cameron be struggling to move any kind of progressive agenda forward with a large part of his party publicly saying that the NHS is a "60 year old joke that should be abolished"?

This could make him entirely impotent as a PM.

It's up to him who he chooses to be on the cabinet though. I think things will turn out just fine.

[Gavin Scott]

It's up to him who he chooses to be on the cabinet though.

What's the cabinet got to do with it? A large majority of MPs come the election is next to useless if half your party don't hold the same views about something as fundamental as the NHS.

I think things will turn out just fine.

Well hope springs eternal, Chie - but you obviously don't know how their last time in office worked out.

[Chie]

What's the cabinet got to do with it? A large majority of MPs come the election is next to useless if half your party don't hold the same views about something as fundamental as the NHS.

For what it's worth, I think the guy is a prat as well. But you can't just sack someone from their job because they have a different opinion about one area of policy.

Well hope springs eternal, Chie - but you obviously don't know how their last time in office worked out.

That was a long time ago. I'm sick of hearing about Margaret Thatcher, as if she's the eternal embodiment of everything the Conservative party stands for. She's not, and she went nearly two decades ago. John Major is also long gone.

Besides, there isn't really any other option. UKIP, the Greens, et al don't know how to run a country. The Lib Dems might, just, but I wouldn't trust them with the economy right now.

[marksi]

What's the cabinet got to do with it? A large majority of MPs come the election is next to useless if half your party don't hold the same views about something as fundamental as the NHS.

For what it's worth, I think the guy is a prat as well. But you can't just sack someone from their job because they have a different opinion about one area of policy.

There aren't many reasons under which an MP (or MEP) can in fact be sacked.

However I would suggest that the right course of action in this situation would have been to withdraw the Conservative whip.

[Gavin Scott]

What's the cabinet got to do with it? A large majority of MPs come the election is next to useless if half your party don't hold the same views about something as fundamental as the NHS.

For what it's worth, I think the guy is a prat as well. But you can't just sack someone from their job because they have a different opinion about one area of policy.

Cameron could have gone a lot further than shrugging it off as if Hannan is some nutty piss-soaked old fart from the house of lords.

He is, or at least was, a senior speech writer for the major players in the party. So why didn't Cameron remove the whip? Does Hannan speak for more people than Cameron would like to admit?

That was a long time ago. I'm sick of hearing about Margaret Thatcher, as if she's the eternal embodiment of everything the Conservative party stands for. She's not, and she went nearly two decades ago. John Major is also long gone.

Why, then, is she removed from her crypt and rolled around like Hanibal Lecter on a trolley for every subsequent election since she was ousted?

Without an approving nod from Thatcher, isn't it the case that no one in the party can be elected leader?