The Tesco & other non-Morrisons supermarket thread

[WillPS]

It all feels like it’ll be irrelevant in the coming decade anyway. Surely some form of just-walk-out technology will eventually be the norm. RFID feels like the way forward if it can be developed to be smaller / cheaper. Zara use it well for their self checkouts.

Zara control all their inventory, it'd be a challenge for the supermarkets (even Aldi/Lidl) to get all their suppliers to change their packaging to incorporate tags which cannot just be printed conventionally. Also imagine what the cost of an RFID tag added to each product would do to the unit cost of basic goods. A (guessing) 5p label is far easier to swallow in to the cost of a two-digit pound item of clothing than it is for a 37p pack of paracetamol.

The fact those peddling the Just Walk Out dream have walked away from using it themselves says it all. It's a fair idea for small outlets with a few essential lines (more or less big vending machines) but the tech has a way to go before it can be useful in a supermarket.

[all new Phil]

It all feels like it’ll be irrelevant in the coming decade anyway. Surely some form of just-walk-out technology will eventually be the norm. RFID feels like the way forward if it can be developed to be smaller / cheaper. Zara use it well for their self checkouts.

Zara control all their inventory, it'd be a challenge for the supermarkets (even Aldi/Lidl) to get all their suppliers to change their packaging to incorporate tags which cannot just be printed conventionally. Also imagine what the cost of an RFID tag added to each product would do to the unit cost of basic goods. A (guessing) 5p label is far easier to swallow in to the cost of a two-digit pound item of clothing than it is for a 37p pack of paracetamol.

The fact those peddling the Just Walk Out dream have walked away from using it themselves says it all. It's a fair idea for small outlets with a few essential lines (more or less big vending machines) but the tech has a way to go before it can be useful in a supermarket.

Maybe but you’re talking in terms of what we have now, I’m saying things will advance. In ten years’ time or so we’ll find it weird that we ever once queued or had to check out our items.

[WillPS]

It all feels like it’ll be irrelevant in the coming decade anyway. Surely some form of just-walk-out technology will eventually be the norm. RFID feels like the way forward if it can be developed to be smaller / cheaper. Zara use it well for their self checkouts.

Zara control all their inventory, it'd be a challenge for the supermarkets (even Aldi/Lidl) to get all their suppliers to change their packaging to incorporate tags which cannot just be printed conventionally. Also imagine what the cost of an RFID tag added to each product would do to the unit cost of basic goods. A (guessing) 5p label is far easier to swallow in to the cost of a two-digit pound item of clothing than it is for a 37p pack of paracetamol.

The fact those peddling the Just Walk Out dream have walked away from using it themselves says it all. It's a fair idea for small outlets with a few essential lines (more or less big vending machines) but the tech has a way to go before it can be useful in a supermarket.

Maybe but you’re talking in terms of what we have now, I’m saying things will advance. In ten years’ time or so we’ll find it weird that we ever once queued or had to check out our items.

Not entirely sure about that but definitely not in the timescales you're suggesting, and not with the technologies that we know of now either. A decade is nothing, we're over two decades in to SCOs being a thing now (and three since the earliest SAYS type things).

Worth noting that across the pond retailers over there are actually regressing technologically and removing a lot of SCOs:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/13/busi ... index.html

I'm also reminded of the many times the death of in person visits to the supermarket has been predicted, and yet here we are 30 years on from the launch of Sainsbury's Orderline and the number of orders delivered has (ignoring Covid) plateau'd at a level still dwarfed by physical trips.

[all new Phil]

You’re right on that and maybe the timeframe will be longer - but there have been advances. Just Walk Out tech isn’t working right now, but that’s not to say it won’t in some form. Waitrose now let you use your phone as a self scan device - and I believe they were looking at having payment done through that too rather than having to check out through a till. The check out process causes a bottleneck, takes up a lot of space, and is still labour intensive. At the risk of sounding like Elon Musk, tech will overcome that.

[Charlie Wells]

Not entirely sure about that but definitely not in the timescales you're suggesting, and not with the technologies that we know of now either. A decade is nothing, we're over two decades in to SCOs being a thing now (and three since the earliest SAYS type things).

Worth noting that across the pond retailers over there are actually regressing technologically and removing a lot of SCOs:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/13/busi ... index.html

I'm also reminded of the many times the death of in person visits to the supermarket has been predicted, and yet here we are 30 years on from the launch of Sainsbury's Orderline and the number of orders delivered has (ignoring Covid) plateau'd at a level still dwarfed by physical trips.

I think that supermarkets need to find the balance between preventing loss and not making customers feel as if they're all being treated as potential shoplifters. Measures such as scanning a barcode on a receipt to exit the payment area and the giant trolley scales being trialled are more likely to piss off more genuine shoppers than deter shoplifters. I imagine they're also likely to result in false positives, such as other personal items in the trolleys, which then result in staff time being wasted rescanning everything.

I believe that the existence of some self-service tills are generally welcome in supermarkets. For example, when I'm getting a meal deal I'd rather not queue up for a staff-operated checkout, where the person(s) in front of me may have been doing their weekly shop. They are however a bit of a pain if you're purchasing tagged items, where you can then be waiting a while for a member of staff to assist.

I'm less keen on the trolley self-service tills, which essentially just have a larger bagging area. For me the issue is that unlike a staff-operated till I cannot bag up as I go along. For larger shops I'd rather use a 'scan-as-you-go' option, be that the handheld scanners in Tesco or the mobile app versions where available. These at least allow me to pack at my own pace, even if they still require going to a till (self-service or staff-operated) to make payment.

I've noticed that card/contactless only self-checkout tills are becoming popular, probably as it saves them from having to top up the cash in them. They also tend to be closer together as they don't have scales, which in turn means they don't need a separate 'bagging area' to weigh the items, and that does at least avoid the "unexpected item" errors. It is important though that there is an open checkout (self-service or staff operated) that accepts cash payments though.

The disadvantage with almost all self-service tills is with security protected items, and also money off vouchers. With the former in most cases it still requires a member of staff to remove those tags, though I've noticed some places such Matalan have the devices at the self-service tills. With regards to money off vouchers, whilst the supermarket's own vouchers generally work, those produced by manufacturers don't always scan even if they specifically mention that supermarket, and again a member of staff is required.

You’re right on that and maybe the timeframe will be longer - but there have been advances. Just Walk Out tech isn’t working right now, but that’s not to say it won’t in some form. Waitrose now let you use your phone as a self scan device - and I believe they were looking at having payment done through that too rather than having to check out through a till. The check out process causes a bottleneck, takes up a lot of space, and is still labour intensive. At the risk of sounding like Elon Musk, tech will overcome that.

It's worth noting that Tesco currently do not have a 'scan and pack' option in their app, and instead currently only have handheld scanners. (Thankfully they replaced the scanners at my local store a few months ago, and the new ones are a lot faster.) They've also recently announced that the 'payment wallet' in the app is being removed later this month. I suspect that completing the transaction app/scanner shop at a checkout may also have some security benefits.

[Jonwo]

Frictionless shopping is good for small purchases but I think until we have two, maybe three generations of people who are technology literate, I think we won't see a massive shift for at least a decade.

I read an article about Vue's new cinema concept in Swindon and it's interesting although I assume it's designed to be card only throughout

[Pete]

They've also recently announced that the 'payment wallet' in the app is being removed later this month.

Is that Tesco Pay+ formerly PayQuik? I wonder if that's because the Apple Pay / Google Pay limits (or lack thereof) have eroded the need for this.

[WillPS]

You’re right on that and maybe the timeframe will be longer - but there have been advances. Just Walk Out tech isn’t working right now, but that’s not to say it won’t in some form. Waitrose now let you use your phone as a self scan device - and I believe they were looking at having payment done through that too rather than having to check out through a till. The check out process causes a bottleneck, takes up a lot of space, and is still labour intensive. At the risk of sounding like Elon Musk, tech will overcome that.

Sainsburys have an app you can use for SAYS too - in fact some stores that's the only SAYS option.

So long as licensing laws and other age restrictions remain a thing then so will a trip through the checkout, not to mention all the loss prevention tags/cages which are becoming more common, not less.

[WillPS]

They've also recently announced that the 'payment wallet' in the app is being removed later this month.

Is that Tesco Pay+ formerly PayQuik? I wonder if that's because the Apple Pay / Google Pay limits (or lack thereof) have eroded the need for this.

Yes, given it was run by the bank which Tesco no longer own it was probably always a matter of time.

[all new Phil]

Can we all at least agree that the people who say “I should get staff discount for using the self checkout” and refuse to use them like it’s some sort of quirky personality trait are the biggest fucking bores that exist?

[tillyoshea]

The M&S app has a ‘scan as you shop’ function for the food hall with Apple Pay integrated, so no need to visit the checkout at all. It’s extremely handy when just nipping in for one or two things at lunchtime when even the self-checkout queues can be lengthy.