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vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 12.58
by nidave
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/sign
Deadline to sign up by: 20 February 2007 – Signatures: 745,372
Re: vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 13.50
by Mich
nidave wrote:We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/sign
Deadline to sign up by: 20 February 2007 – Signatures: 745,372
Noooo!
Road Pricing can be a fantastic policy, and complaining about vehicle tracking is a little premature - while I don't trust give government one bit, the scheme could (and should) be implemented to protect privacy.
Re: vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 14.38
by nidave
Mich wrote:nidave wrote:We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/sign
Deadline to sign up by: 20 February 2007 – Signatures: 745,372
Noooo!
Road Pricing can be a fantastic policy, and complaining about vehicle tracking is a little premature - while I don't trust give government one bit, the scheme could (and should) be implemented to protect privacy.
one question HOW?
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 15.23
by Mich
The privacy?
One possible solution would be for the system in the car to be sent the billing information and accrue on the smartcard. The user would then pay off their smartcard when buying petrol (this means that it is easier to faze in because those with a road pricing system would be able to buy cheaper fuel [if the system were introduced it should be revenue neutral - thus reducing motoring taxes]).
No central computer records the location of any one car - just an anonymous smartcard.
Just one potential solution - probably not what we'll end up with, but it is theoretically possible. Besides if the government wanted to track your movements, i'm sure they could do it easily enough at the moment.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 16.07
by Dr Lobster*
it's very easy for you to be pinpointed via your mobile phone (and this is something most people carry about their person pretty much all the time)- this information has been used the police in the past and it's apparently very easy for the police to get this information for your network supplier (from what i've been told)
i'm surprised we haven't seen any locale sensitive sms advertising yet (ie, when you're walking past mcdonalds you get a marketing hit or a message giving you 25% off your meal etc)
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 16.07
by nidave
Mich wrote:The privacy?
One possible solution would be for the system in the car to be sent the billing information and accrue on the smartcard. The user would then pay off their smartcard when buying petrol (this means that it is easier to faze in because those with a road pricing system would be able to buy cheaper fuel [if the system were introduced it should be revenue neutral - thus reducing motoring taxes]).
No central computer records the location of any one car - just an anonymous smartcard.
Just one potential solution - probably not what we'll end up with, but it is theoretically possible. Besides if the government wanted to track your movements, i'm sure they could do it easily enough at the moment.
and you seriously beleve this information will not be passed to insurers or that you will get a reduction on the tax paid on petrol if you paid this way. If you wanted to do that why not increast the VAT on petrol - will do excatly the same thing. the people who drive more pay more. There is already systems in place to collect this.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 16.50
by Mich
nidave wrote:
and you seriously beleve this information will not be passed to insurers or that you will get a reduction on the tax paid on petrol if you paid this way. If you wanted to do that why not increast the VAT on petrol - will do excatly the same thing. the people who drive more pay more. There is already systems in place to collect this.
There is no reason why the information should be used by third parties - however IF aggregate level data such as mile travelled were made available to insurers - it would mean fairer quotes, and quite possibly decreased premiums for 50% of drivers.
As Dr Lobster* points out, it is very easy for the authorities to track you, if they want to - and as I said, there are work arounds to protect privacy to at least current standards.
Road Pricing in generally is a very solid policy (in terms of Economics); currently road tax and fuel tax are a very poor proxy for road use.
They key to understanding this is that a road at 9.00am, 5pm and 10pm are not the same 'goods'. The road at congested time is a more valuable resource, why should you not pay more for it?
The scheme isn't about raising revenue per se; there are 1001 other ways to do that, it is about making better use of roads.
To increase the acceptability of road pricing it is highly likely that with would be revenue neutral at introduction, regardless of what the evidence calls for.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 21.16
by nidave
So I am charged more because due to business needs I have to be at my desk by 9am ???
I am being penalised because my job is a standard 9 - 5.30?
How is that fair?
My job is 50 mile round trip for me. Why am I being punished becasue I enjoy my job and there are no viable alternitaves to get to there. it would take me 4 busses and 1 train to get to and from work each day.
Posted: Wed 07 Feb, 2007 22.09
by Mich
nidave wrote:So I am charged more because due to business needs I have to be at my desk by 9am ???
I am being penalised because my job is a standard 9 - 5.30?
How is that fair?
My job is 50 mile round trip for me. Why am I being punished becasue I enjoy my job and there are no viable alternitaves to get to there. it would take me 4 busses and 1 train to get to and from work each day.
Why do you object to paying for the resource that you are using? You need electricity to power a computer at work from 9.00-17.30, in many cases it would be cheaper to use the energy 23.00-7.30. How fair is that?
The effect of the scheme would be to deter people that don't need to make that trip from the roads during peak times - meaning that your journey will take less time and be less variable.
Posted: Thu 08 Feb, 2007 09.12
by nidave
Mich wrote:nidave wrote:So I am charged more because due to business needs I have to be at my desk by 9am ???
I am being penalised because my job is a standard 9 - 5.30?
How is that fair?
My job is 50 mile round trip for me. Why am I being punished becasue I enjoy my job and there are no viable alternitaves to get to there. it would take me 4 busses and 1 train to get to and from work each day.
Why do you object to paying for the resource that you are using? You need electricity to power a computer at work from 9.00-17.30, in many cases it would be cheaper to use the energy 23.00-7.30. How fair is that?
The effect of the scheme would be to deter people that don't need to make that trip from the roads during peak times - meaning that your journey
will take less time and be less variable.
How is that MY fault if my Employer and the business needs say the comapny is best suited to be open from 9am???
I understand the resaoning but there is no alternitave for me to use the car!
I cant afford this extra tax. I dont belive my employer will be giving me a pay rise to cover my extra costs.
Posted: Thu 08 Feb, 2007 10.34
by Mich
nidave wrote:How is that MY fault if my Employer and the business needs say the comapny is best suited to be open from 9am???
I understand the resaoning but there is no alternitave for me to use the car!
I cant afford this extra tax. I dont belive my employer will be giving me a pay rise to cover my extra costs.
There is currently no evidence to show that you will be paying more - the price levels, variation in them and reduction in other taxes is currently unknown.
For the scheme to be politically acceptable it is highly likely that it would be revenue neutral - you may well save money with the introduction of the scheme.
The scheme isn't really about cutting road use, it is about making better use of road space - if you use a more valuable resource you pay for it (and those that do not need to make a journey at a specific time on a highly priced route will reschedule), in same way as you do with a whole wealth of other goods and services.