Metropol

Gavin Scott wrote:That's a difficult thing to take to court without people like me reporting the matter to trading standards or the council - but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

But if it is so prevalent, then surely it has been reported? I find it hard to believe that we are openly discussing an alleged illegal activity that no one has actually investigated. The conclusion that has been reached must therefore be either A) Costco's conduct has been found to be legitimate or B) local authorities don't care about what Costco is doing. Either way, your concern should not be with Costco, but with the government.

Yes, consumers want to pay the lowest price. A perfectly reasonable thing.

If they want a can of beans at the cheapest retail price in the UK they go to Asda. Asda trade as a retailer, and pay rates for their premises accordingly, and have large numbers of staff in modern, large stores.

But you can buy it cheaper at Costco. Costco pay rates on trade warehouses, with fewer staff and rough concrete floors.

Why should Asda lose the business when they are the model of a modern business?

I don't know - perhaps because they're not selling at the lowest price that's available? I agree that Costco's lower prices are partly the result of favourable treatment in terms of what rates they have to pay. Again, it is government that has created an uneven playing field. It is somewhat ironic that the very policy designed to favour small businesses - creating this distinction in terms of retailers and wholesalers - is now hurting them. That is not Costco's fault - it is the government's.

There is a place for "suppliers to the trade". There always has been and there always will be. Its nonsense to say we can do without. Its not about "propping up" small businesses, its about serving tens of thousands of shops in towns and cities across the UK. There are more independent shops in the UK than there are chain shops and supermarkets. Fact.

Sure - but you can't then criticise companies that allow consumers to pay less for goods. The regulatory environment that has allowed Costco to do what it's doing is to blame here, not Costco itself.

The rates model works. It is sensible and doesn't need to be changed.

Some things survive because they are successful, Mr Q. They don't all need to be swept away with "new thinking".

This is not "new thinking" Gavin. You're the one who's identified the problem here. You can't then turn around and say that everything's just fine. The rates model clearly isn't working here if certain companies are given favourable treatment over others.

The system only fails when companies cheat. Enforcement and audits may be the answer - not crippling or removing an essential part of the supply chain with a flat set of business rates.

Who is talking about "crippling or removing an essential part of the supply chain"? How would lower taxes on retailers - which you have advocated - be a bad thing? How would removing council rates entirely and raising the revenue through an increased VAT - which end consumers will always pay irrespective of where they're buying from - be a bad thing?

Again I make the point that I don't believe there is a huge divergence in our views here. You believe that Costco is unfairly competing with retailers, taking advantage of the lower council rates they are charged. I agree that this is unfair competition. You argue that the playing field is not level. I absolutely agree. The only fundamental area where we differ is who we actually blame for this. Your view is that this is all down to Costco, who are acting illegally. Yet there is no evidence that their conduct is actually breaking the law. I simply find it impossible to believe that their conduct has not been investigated at even a cursory level by the relevant authorities. For whatever reason, they have not taken action. If they are breaking the law and no one is doing anything about it, that's the government's fault. If they actually aren't breaking any law, then it's the government's fault for fostering an environment of unfair competition.

I genuinely understand your grievance here Gavin. I just think the focus of your complaint is misdirected.

cdd wrote:

You can do what Costco do - pay rates based on being a trade only warehouse and coerce the public into breaking the law by forging an application that claims they are a trader.

Interesting. I've never felt "coerced" into forging applications claiming I'm a trader.

Correct. Individual members are just that - individual consumers, not representing themselves as traders. You might want to take a look at the opening hours of the warehouses, which certainly in this neck of the woods only allow trade members in on weekday mornings.

If the assertion that the public are representing themselves as traders were correct then the split opening times wouldn't apply as all members would be equal.

Steve in Pudsey wrote:

cdd wrote:Interesting. I've never felt "coerced" into forging applications claiming I'm a trader.

Correct.

Impossible, try again.

A fact that may interest you is that Costco stores in Mexico very openly allow individuals to register for a yearly fee.

A fact from cdd? Unlikely.

But not impossible, stopped clocks tell the right time twice a day and all that.

They've hiked the price of a cheese and onion sandwich up to £1.45 - from 88p! All they've done is changed the packaging and started cutting the bread horizontally through the middle, as opposed to diagonally from corner to corner. The weight is still the same, as is the calorie content, and yet they think that just because the sandwich looks a bit posher, it justifies a 57 pence price increase. Daylight robbery.

Chie wrote:They've hiked the price of a cheese and onion sandwich up to £1.45 - from 88p! All they've done is changed the packaging and started cutting the bread horizontally through the middle, as opposed to diagonally from corner to corner. The weight is still the same, as is the calorie content, and yet they think that just because the sandwich looks a bit posher, it justifies a 57 pence price increase. Daylight robbery.

Don't buy it then - problem solved.

But what about his onion breath?

Sput wrote:But what about his onion breath?

I'm assured that's not down to the sandwich.

I get totally sidetracked by your avatar Mark. Where and when was that taken?