Metropol

On a more serious note, community radio and before that, hospital radio and local radio, have always the butt of jokes from others, and frankly, I'm sick of it. I've heard these things too often. All the comments about "tinpot radio" make me sick, because they completely miss the point. Community radio is not meant to be a direct copy of what other radio stations do, but learn from them, and do some things differently, whilst sounding familiar. It's gotta reflect the community, yet everything can't be just local.

And how do you define what is "tinpot" radio? Is it Worthless? Is it Inferior? It certainly isn't cheap. I defy anyone to define any form of broadcasting as cheap, because if you were to add up the time spent by the volunteers producing the shows, even at only minimum wage, you'd soon be looking at thousands of pounds worth of time spent every week on keeping the station running.

cityprod wrote:

bilky asko wrote:With your shows, I am not at all surprised community radio life is mundane.

My show has got nothing to do with it. It's the realities of life in a radio station, community or otherwise.

Jeez, you should actually get out from behind the computer screen and actually discover how things are. There's probably a community radio station near you that you could volunteer at, and discover for yourself what it's really like. Heck, you could even produce your own shows and see if you could do better. It would be better than just firing off criticisms based on a personal hatred of someone you've never actually met and don't even know.

1. I have a full time job to occupy my time.
2. There are no community stations near me.
3. If I want any advice on community radio I'll ask Jon Wells.

There's a community radio station a few hundred metres from where I live now.

I never listen to it. Neither does anyone else I know. It's a refuge of unprofessional, unproduced, unlistenable noise. One of my previous jobs was based in the same building as them, so I'm very aware of how they operate, and the people involved. They pride themselves on giving people who otherwise would never get into radio a chance to do so. My suspicion is that many of those people wouldn't get into radio because they either don't want to, or don't have the ability to learn the skills to do so.

Somehow, they also got themselves a local TV station...

The other couple of community radio stations around here all give me the same impression as them - it's radio produced* by people who want to produce radio, not radio produced for an audience, and without the people who *can* produce radio - because they've gone and got jobs doing what they love.

* by produced, I mean "thrown together"

bilky asko wrote:1. I have a full time job to occupy my time.

That's no excuse. I know a number of presenters across community radio in Cornwall who have full time jobs as well. You're just not interested enough to back your opinions with actual actions. So why bother commenting about something you just aren't interested in. That would be like asking me to comment of forestry policy.

dosxuk wrote:There's a community radio station a few hundred metres from where I live now.

I never listen to it. Neither does anyone else I know. It's a refuge of unprofessional, unproduced, unlistenable noise.

I know which one you're talking about, and having heard it, yeah, that's an accurate description, but one swallow does not make a summer, and one station does not represent a whole sector.

One of my previous jobs was based in the same building as them, so I'm very aware of how they operate, and the people involved. They pride themselves on giving people who otherwise would never get into radio a chance to do so.

Well, that's what community radio is there to do. Don't forget, it was originally called "Access Radio", and as a sector, the task of community radio stations is to give people who wouldn't get on BBC or commercial local radio a chance to produce radio shows. There's been some interesting comedy shows and documentaries as well as music programmes produced because of community radio, programmes that would not be done by the BBC or commercial radio

My suspicion is that many of those people wouldn't get into radio because they either don't want to, or don't have the ability to learn the skills to do so.

Your suspicion would be incorrect on both counts. If they didn't want to do radio, they wouldn't volunteer in the first place, and I've seen people who knew nothing about radio, learn about it, and get onto BBC and commercial radio stations. If you're interested enough in something, you'll learn whatever you can about it.

The other couple of community radio stations around here all give me the same impression as them - it's radio produced* by people who want to produce radio, not radio produced for an audience, and without the people who *can* produce radio - because they've gone and got jobs doing what they love.

* by produced, I mean "thrown together"

There's no reason that someone who wants to produce radio, isn't producing it for an audience. Just because you might not be aware of the audience for it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I agree that producing good radio is a skill, and sadly it is a skill that no longer seems to be taught anywhere, because of things like computerised music selection, which have taken most of the skill out of it. But on the flip side there are many different formats out there, and they all have slightly different rules and ideas. Shows like KCRW's Morning Becomes Eclectic is very different to a show on KOST for instance. There's room out there for all kinds of shows and stations.

cityprod wrote:

bilky asko wrote:1. I have a full time job to occupy my time.

That's no excuse. I know a number of presenters across community radio in Cornwall who have full time jobs as well. You're just not interested enough to back your opinions with actual actions. So why bother commenting about something you just aren't interested in. That would be like asking me to comment of forestry policy.

That was in response to your unwarranted jibe about "get[ting] out from behind the computer screen" - I think having a customer-facing full-time job would suggest I'm not some sort of anti-social hermit. Of course, you presume that it is the sort of job where you can just clock off and forget about it for another day.

Quite why I would have to work in community radio and not just be a discerning listener to be able to criticise what your contribution to community radio is, is beyond me. And to suggest I am not interested in radio because I don't work in it is fucking ridiculous, even for you.

bilky asko wrote:

cityprod wrote:

bilky asko wrote:1. I have a full time job to occupy my time.

That's no excuse. I know a number of presenters across community radio in Cornwall who have full time jobs as well. You're just not interested enough to back your opinions with actual actions. So why bother commenting about something you just aren't interested in. That would be like asking me to comment of forestry policy.

That was in response to your unwarranted jibe about "get[ting] out from behind the computer screen" - I think having a customer-facing full-time job would suggest I'm not some sort of anti-social hermit.

No direct correlation, and I can say that with experience. With having around 15 years experience in retail, almost all of it customer-facing, you don't actually have to be a social butterfly to perform well at it. In fact, it's probably best if you're not, and I am most certainly not a social butterfly by any stretch of the imagination.

Heck, if you deal with the public all day, then it doesn't surprise me that you do behave like an anti-social hermit at times, because dealing with the public can do that to you, quite easily. Again, I can speak from experience, having been there and back again.

Of course, you presume that it is the sort of job where you can just clock off and forget about it for another day.

Well, yes, because you can. If you are taking a whole load of work-related stuff home with you every night, then it's no wonder that you come across so grouchy. Learn to let go at the end of the day. Worrying about stuff that happened earlier in the day isn't going to change anything, and worrying about tomorrow is equally fruitless.

Quite why I would have to work in community radio and not just be a discerning listener to be able to criticise what your contribution to community radio is, is beyond me.

Well I don't know why its beyond you, because it's all in your own head. The reality is so much simpler. I have yet to see one 'radio' post from you that isn't either criticisng me and my show or criticising community radio as a whole. So by that reckoning, your level of interest in radio doesn't extend much beyond taking pot shots at me just because you want to. Heck, from what I've seen, you don't even have an opinion about what good community radio, unlike Martin who has said that he favours the type of radio produced by stations like Resonance, Soundart and Reprezent, and fair play on all of those stations, they're each doing something different that fits their community, and so is Source FM. The difference is that Falmouth/Penryn is a very different community to Totnes where Soundart are, and we have to do something different to Soundart, but also different to BBC Radio Cornwall, Pirate FM & Heart. Trying to sound like them is not going to work for us, so we have to reflect our community.

cityprod wrote:I agree that producing good radio is a skill, and sadly it is a skill that no longer seems to be taught anywhere, because of things like computerised music selection, which have taken most of the skill out of it.

I can't actually believe you've just said that.

Yes, you can schedule music with software, and any half-decent station does - but the setting-up and execution of that software is very much a skill in itself. And with the major packages out there, such as Powergold, Music1 or Selector, there's no right or wrong way to use the many, many parameters that are available to you.

robschneider wrote:

cityprod wrote:I agree that producing good radio is a skill, and sadly it is a skill that no longer seems to be taught anywhere, because of things like computerised music selection, which have taken most of the skill out of it.

I can't actually believe you've just said that.

Yes, you can schedule music with software, and any half-decent station does - but the setting-up and execution of that software is very much a skill in itself. And with the major packages out there, such as Powergold, Music1 or Selector, there's no right or wrong way to use the many, many parameters that are available to you.

Not disagreeing at all, but the skill that is music scheduling, has been largely done away with as a result. At one time, every presenter would have had to have learned how to schedule the music. Nowadays, it's only one Head of Music who deals with that, maybe the Station Manager too, but most presenters don't need to know how to do that, as a computer does it for them, whether it's at the station, or at a network centre hundreds of miles away. As such, the knowledge of how to schedule music isn't as widely known as it used to be.

Setting up the software to do that, yes, it's a skill in itself, but it's mainly database management, rather than physical scheduling.

cityprod wrote: No direct correlation, and I can say that with experience. With having around 15 years experience in retail, almost all of it customer-facing, you don't actually have to be a social butterfly to perform well at it. In fact, it's probably best if you're not, and I am most certainly not a social butterfly by any stretch of the imagination.

Heck, if you deal with the public all day, then it doesn't surprise me that you do behave like an anti-social hermit at times, because dealing with the public can do that to you, quite easily. Again, I can speak from experience, having been there and back again.

[...]

Well, yes, because you can. If you are taking a whole load of work-related stuff home with you every night, then it's no wonder that you come across so grouchy. Learn to let go at the end of the day. Worrying about stuff that happened earlier in the day isn't going to change anything, and worrying about tomorrow is equally fruitless.

You don't half have a knack for completely misinterpreting my posts in order to try and patronise me. I don't have an incapability to not think about work, it's simply a reality that working for a small business and helping the business be successful requires work out of hours. Switching off at 4pm was very easy when I worked in telesales.

cityprod wrote:Well I don't know why its beyond you, because it's all in your own head. The reality is so much simpler. I have yet to see one 'radio' post from you that isn't either criticisng me and my show or criticising community radio as a whole. So by that reckoning, your level of interest in radio doesn't extend much beyond taking pot shots at me just because you want to. Heck, from what I've seen, you don't even have an opinion about what good community radio, unlike Martin who has said that he favours the type of radio produced by stations like Resonance, Soundart and Reprezent, and fair play on all of those stations, they're each doing something different that fits their community, and so is Source FM. The difference is that Falmouth/Penryn is a very different community to Totnes where Soundart are, and we have to do something different to Soundart, but also different to BBC Radio Cornwall, Pirate FM & Heart. Trying to sound like them is not going to work for us, so we have to reflect our community.

I've listened to community radio programmes which have been springboards for people to enter commercial radio, I've listened to the community radio programmes of the people on TV Forum that I've known to have such programmes; the quality of the output on many of them was very good quality. I don't hold that view about your programme.

What makes good community radio is, as far as possible, reflecting the community it serves in both its content and the people involved in it. It shouldn't be open access to any old crackpot who wants to play at being on the radio. Even something as simple as a scores service for local football teams, or a general purpose of an under-represented community, does the job for me. Discovering new talent in terms of music, reflecting the local music scene (especially in innovative genres) - wonderful. But it does need to be listenable and not a load of old shite.

I can receive all of my local community radio stations on DAB as they're on the small scale DAB trial for the capital.

Rinse FM gets three hours a week of my listening airtime when it has an old school dance music show on Fridays. However the rest of the output is not to my taste or caters to young Londoners.

Reprezent is the only station in London that gives young people a voice. As well as urban skewed music, there are topical shows that young people under 25 are interested in, not what the BBC or LBC think they're interested in.

Nu Sound is an young Asian station for East Londoners.

Resonance has been mentioned already by Cityprod, yet receives funding from the Arts Council and has Guardianista backers which ensure the station's longevity. Those listeners may be tiny, but they have money to help support the station, can the same be said for Small Town FM playing Phil Collins between community information and dull interviews? (See That's TV for dull local interviews)

What do all these stations have in common? They don't let Dave Doubledecks on playing what he likes or a mix of music heard on better produced commercial stations. Those stations in London which had such a broad format have ceased transmission.

In all honesty, even if I lived in an area where the only choice was between the BBC nationals, DAB radio and a 25w community station that plays Phil Collins and Adele followed by a dull interview, the automated DAB station would win hands down.