Metropol

But you can join the Army I notice. So you can be shot and killed without having a say in how, when and where you get shot and killed.

Alexia wrote: Fri 30 Nov, 2018 15.04 But you can join the Army I notice. So you can be shot and killed without having a say in how, when and where you get shot and killed.

You can join the army at 16 with parental consent, but can only be deployed in hostile situations at 18. I get that army personnell aren't only in danger in pre-identified hostile situations, but equally it's not like there aren't special protections for people below the voting age.

For many people in depressed communities with little prospects following a crap education joining the army is the only real escape for them. Also joining isn't as voluntary as you may think if it's "expected" of you by your family, for example.

Never said it was. You merely intimated that I did.

Isn't that a type of fish?

SIGH

Well now.

What a completely embarrassing shambles. It'll be very interesting to see what the next few days brings - I cannot see a path forward that won't result in a large proportion of Parliament and the public being dissatisfied. The EU are being pretty firm that they will not negotiate further.

I think an election is the only way forward. Tories can stand on a manifesto that involves taking us out of the EU (led by a real Brexit leader), Labour can pledge to stay in. Whoever wins then has the mandate to proceed. Chance to put the arguments forward throughout the campaign and people to make an informed decision. Bosh.

all new Phil wrote: Mon 10 Dec, 2018 22.11 I think an election is the only way forward. Tories can stand on a manifesto that involves taking us out of the EU (led by a real Brexit leader), Labour can pledge to stay in. Whoever wins then has the mandate to proceed. Chance to put the arguments forward throughout the campaign and people to make an informed decision. Bosh.

The Tories wouldn't be able to stand on a mandate of leaving the EU because they can't agree amongst themselves how it should happen. Also it's a topic that doesn't fit neatly within typical party allegiances.

Square Eyes wrote: Mon 10 Dec, 2018 22.48

all new Phil wrote: Mon 10 Dec, 2018 22.11 I think an election is the only way forward. Tories can stand on a manifesto that involves taking us out of the EU (led by a real Brexit leader), Labour can pledge to stay in. Whoever wins then has the mandate to proceed. Chance to put the arguments forward throughout the campaign and people to make an informed decision. Bosh.

The Tories wouldn't be able to stand on a mandate of leaving the EU because they can't agree amongst themselves how it should happen. Also it's a topic that doesn't fit neatly within typical party allegiances.

All very true, but I think there needs to be a definitive stance by each party for the sake of moving things along. And I don’t mean the Tories’ power stance. The problem right now is that the Tories are split, and Labour are sitting on the fence. Getting a plan in their respective manifestos means at least they’re pledging a set path rather than trying to satisfy “the will of the people”, which none of them can agree on. Sure there will be MPs who don’t agree, but there are plenty in each party who don’t agree with the official line on plenty of things. Why should the EU be different to those?