Metropol

barcode wrote:* Why does England need a voice? its has Five times as many mps over all the other parts of the UK, Maybe you lot should get better MPS.

What is it about a person living 1 mile north of the border which makes them less represented by Westminster than someone living 1 mile south of the border? They both have just one MP.

The north/south political divide is not the Scottish border. A quirk of geography has given voters north of the border a third viable option in this election - something that the rest of the UK hasn't had.

Range Voting and Reweighted Range Voting are my personal favourite electoral systems.

There's been surprisingly little coverage in the media today of protests in London against the new Government. That said, I do find these sorts of protests odd - I understand if they have issues with the Conservatives and their policies (as do I) but it seems to have been sparked by them winning the election, rather than doing anything in particular to warrant the protest, which I don't understand - they were elected according to our democratic system which has existed for about 150 years and it's as simple as that.

If you have an issue with the electoral system, that's an entirely different protest - though of course the Tories would still have won even with proportional representation...

woah wrote:There's been surprisingly little coverage in the media today of protests in London against the new Government. That said, I do find these sorts of protests odd - I understand if they have issues with the Conservatives and their policies (as do I) but it seems to have been sparked by them winning the election, rather than doing anything in particular to warrant the protest, which I don't understand - they were elected according to our democratic system which has existed for about 150 years and it's as simple as that.

If you have an issue with the electoral system, that's an entirely different protest - though of course the Tories would still have won even with proportional representation...

They wouldn't have won a majority though. This is also on the presumption of all the votes being exactly the same under a different system.

woah wrote:There's been surprisingly little coverage in the media today of protests in London against the new Government. That said, I do find these sorts of protests odd - I understand if they have issues with the Conservatives and their policies (as do I) but it seems to have been sparked by them winning the election, rather than doing anything in particular to warrant the protest, which I don't understand - they were elected according to our democratic system which has existed for about 150 years and it's as simple as that.

If you have an issue with the electoral system, that's an entirely different protest - though of course the Tories would still have won even with proportional representation...

The longevity of a voting system doesn't indicate its suitability, quite the reverse I'd argue.

The Conservatives would not have got a majority under PR, and it would have come down to whether the Lib Dems would prefer to work with the Tories and UKIP, or Labour, the SNP and the Greens (and maybe Plaid).

barcode wrote:* Why does England need a voice? its has Five times as many mps over all the other parts of the UK, Maybe you lot should get better MPS.

I should know better than to respond to you, but can you just stop and think for one second instead of spewing all sorts of crap into posts on this forum? All too often talking to friends, they really think it's all about us in Scotland. Well, it's not always all about us. The SNP has done very well and good luck to them but UK General Elections (under the present arrangements) should have an England-skew, especially as most people in the UK live there, and also so many matters are now devolved to Scotland where we get to choose representatives as well.

You ask why does England need a voice? Well, think about this. In Scotland, we've got:

3-4 councillors per ward, elected under Single Transferable Vote
1 MSP for each Scottish Parliamentary constituency
6-7 Additional MSPs for each Scottish Parliamentary region (Additional Member System)
1 MP for UK Parliament constituency.

In many parts of England, compared to the above, people have 1 councillor and 1 MP. That's it. Maybe 'more representation' or institutions aren't wanted, but you must be able to acknowledge there is an imbalance.

This is the part of English nationalism that bugs me - giving England an English Parliament, with all the same powers as the Scottish Parliament, would not in my opinion put an English voter on level with a Scottish voter - Scotland has a population 5.3m; England's is 53m. We'd need 10 English Parliaments to be on the same level as the Scottish.

I don't think that's likely, but I'd love there to be something which reflects the fact that our political interests up here in the North and Midlands are not the same as those in the South.

A Yorkshire Parliament in York. Compulsory Yorkshire puddings. Making sure Yorkshire dialect is taught in schools. Plenty of YMPs, with the Speaker of the Yorkshire house saying "shut thy bloody gob before I bat yer round lug oyle!"

Yes, I think it could work.

scottishtv wrote:

barcode wrote:* Why does England need a voice? its has Five times as many mps over all the other parts of the UK, Maybe you lot should get better MPS.

I should know better than to respond to you, but can you just stop and think for one second instead of spewing all sorts of crap into posts on this forum? All too often talking to friends, they really think it's all about us in Scotland. Well, it's not always all about us. The SNP has done very well and good luck to them but UK General Elections (under the present arrangements) should have an England-skew, especially as most people in the UK live there, and also so many matters are now devolved to Scotland where we get to choose representatives as well.

You ask why does England need a voice? Well, think about this. In Scotland, we've got:

3-4 councillors per ward, elected under Single Transferable Vote
1 MSP for each Scottish Parliamentary constituency
6-7 Additional MSPs for each Scottish Parliamentary region (Additional Member System)
1 MP for UK Parliament constituency.

In many parts of England, compared to the above, people have 1 councillor and 1 MP. That's it. Maybe 'more representation' or institutions aren't wanted, but you must be able to acknowledge there is an imbalance.

Thats your opinion and your allowed to have it, My point still stand there have a very powerful voice in the UK parliament, there don't need a voice because there already have one.

" it's all about us in Scotland."
Labour tried to bring in elected regional assemblies, and yet people turned there noses up to them. it would have also used Additional Member System.

Again with the your point about the council wards is wrong, To be fair the Scottish council wards are four times bigger. Also many parts of England still have District and country councils, which gives them two councillors. What about the Unitary authority well actually, many wards have two councillors, you have to vote for, Labour are very good at splitting the vote to get wards to get both in. What about the directly elected mayors, which is growing list?

barcode wrote:

scottishtv wrote:

barcode wrote:* Why does England need a voice? its has Five times as many mps over all the other parts of the UK, Maybe you lot should get better MPS.

I should know better than to respond to you, but can you just stop and think for one second instead of spewing all sorts of crap into posts on this forum? All too often talking to friends, they really think it's all about us in Scotland. Well, it's not always all about us. The SNP has done very well and good luck to them but UK General Elections (under the present arrangements) should have an England-skew, especially as most people in the UK live there, and also so many matters are now devolved to Scotland where we get to choose representatives as well.

You ask why does England need a voice? Well, think about this. In Scotland, we've got:

3-4 councillors per ward, elected under Single Transferable Vote
1 MSP for each Scottish Parliamentary constituency
6-7 Additional MSPs for each Scottish Parliamentary region (Additional Member System)
1 MP for UK Parliament constituency.

In many parts of England, compared to the above, people have 1 councillor and 1 MP. That's it. Maybe 'more representation' or institutions aren't wanted, but you must be able to acknowledge there is an imbalance.

Thats your opinion and your allowed to have it, My point still stand there have a very powerful voice in the UK parliament, there don't need a voice because there already have one.

" it's all about us in Scotland."
Labour tried to bring in elected regional assemblies, and yet people turned there noses up to them. it would have also used Additional Member System.

Again with the your point about the council wards is wrong, To be fair the Scottish council wards are four times bigger. Also many parts of England still have District and country councils, which gives them two councillors. What about the Unitary authority well actually, many wards have two councillors, you have to vote for, Labour are very good at splitting the vote to get wards to get both in. What about the directly elected mayors, which is growing list?

You're coming across more than a little entitled. Scottish people have a voice in "UK parliament" too, just the same as everyone else.

The number of councilors is neither here nor there, frankly.

Just as Salmond and Sturgeon have argued that a Conservative government will never speak for the Scottish people, the same is true for the people of the North of England.

barcode wrote:My point still stand there have a very powerful voice in the UK parliament, there don't need a voice because there already have one.

I still want to hear why you think someone a mile north of the border is any less represented by their MP in Westminster than someone a mile south of the border.