Metropol

Mr Q wrote:When government intervenes in the economy and in society, it causes people to change their behaviour. That is self-evident. The question then is not whether a tax or some other policy will bring about a change in behaviour, but rather will it bring about the desired change in behaviour. Society is predicated on a system of incentives and disincentives, yet these do not function independently of one another. We make decisions based on relative judgment or whether we would rather do something as opposed to something else. So when we consider policies that affect 'something', we must be mindful of what the 'something else' is as well. Most critically, we should never assume that more government intervention is always preferable to less. As has been correctly noted here, much of Europe takes a far more relaxed attitude to Britain with respect of alcohol, and yet the problems of violence and crime related to alcohol consumption appear to be lower on the continent. Any policy can yield unintended consequences. It's not unfair to question whether that's the case here.

StuartPlymouth wrote:

Mr Q wrote:When government intervenes in the economy and in society, it causes people to change their behaviour. That is self-evident. The question then is not whether a tax or some other policy will bring about a change in behaviour, but rather will it bring about the desired change in behaviour. Society is predicated on a system of incentives and disincentives, yet these do not function independently of one another. We make decisions based on relative judgment or whether we would rather do something as opposed to something else. So when we consider policies that affect 'something', we must be mindful of what the 'something else' is as well. Most critically, we should never assume that more government intervention is always preferable to less. As has been correctly noted here, much of Europe takes a far more relaxed attitude to Britain with respect of alcohol, and yet the problems of violence and crime related to alcohol consumption appear to be lower on the continent. Any policy can yield unintended consequences. It's not unfair to question whether that's the case here.

I understand the point you are making Mr Q, but 40+ countries in Europe appear to have a low tax policy on alcohol and yet little or no discerable anti-social behaviour as a direct result of it.

Yes, the 24/7 policy for the UK (although rarely adopted by many establishments) could be a catalyst, but not the cause or continuation of the problem. The problem has existed for along time. Well before me, you and our great-grandparents were born.

The attitude to alcohol in the UK has changed over the last 50 years, through no intervention by the Government. I can't see them having an impact now.

OneThingsForSure wrote:This is what I can't understand.

But I think the bigger problem is that kids today are so poorly behaved and have no proper discipline.

They all need a good slap if you ask me, but nobody can give them that anymore. When I was younger you were deterred by a smacked arse. Not any more.

cdd wrote:The problem may not have changed, but the legitimate ways of dealing with that problem have. Which in turn impacts the problem.

Mr Q wrote:

cdd wrote:The problem may not have changed, but the legitimate ways of dealing with that problem have. Which in turn impacts the problem.

Perhaps so - but are those "legitimate ways" different in the UK to the rest of Europe? For the most part, I imagine not.

cdd wrote:

Mr Q wrote:

cdd wrote:The problem may not have changed, but the legitimate ways of dealing with that problem have. Which in turn impacts the problem.

Perhaps so - but are those "legitimate ways" different in the UK to the rest of Europe? For the most part, I imagine not.

But are UK and European cultures identical? *I*'d imagine not, so I think the legitimate ways should differ.

Mr Q wrote: Well, perhaps I've misinterpreted what you've said, but by 'legitimate ways of dealing with the problem', I assume you mean the powers that police and parents have. I'm not an expert on the differences in laws between European governments, but I would have thought that across the UK and Europe, those were broadly the same. If anything, there's probably greater scope in British law to deal with 'hooliganism' than there is on the continent.

cdd wrote:

Mr Q wrote: Well, perhaps I've misinterpreted what you've said, but by 'legitimate ways of dealing with the problem', I assume you mean the powers that police and parents have. I'm not an expert on the differences in laws between European governments, but I would have thought that across the UK and Europe, those were broadly the same. If anything, there's probably greater scope in British law to deal with 'hooliganism' than there is on the continent.

Ah, on the contrary: I'm saying that the UK should have different rules from other countries, not least those in the EU, that are specific for its needs.