Metropol

I quite like the driving instructor who gives discounts to BNP members.

Anyone turning 17 soon?

James H wrote:I'm not being naive - and I know exactly what the views of some members of the BNP are. But the common MEDIA consensus is that the BNP are all white supremacists racists who want immigrants out. This is plainly wrong, because I have met members of the BNP before and had political discussions with them and they are certainly not racists.

If you think I'm going to swallow the tripe that's been served to you then you're going to be disappointed. The BNP are, and always have been, dedicated to pushing a white-only manifesto. If you're telling me that paid up members of the party don't know this then someone is telling porky pies here. Do you know what their activists do to families of colour living on their housing estates? Have you read about bricks through windows, shit through letterboxes and wood being piled up at their front doors and set alight?

What did these BNP people tell you they were out to achieve? I would be interested to know.

Regardless of what your views are, the BNP has the full right to operate as a political party in the UK, and encouraging attacks on them and making enemies of them is exactly the kind of behaviour that will only seek to promote their behaviour

I neither suggested they don't have a right to voice their opinions within a political organisation, nor did I encourage anyone to attack them.

But I would be lying if I said I didn't find it at least ironic that now they may know what it is to be targeted without "just cause".

Gavin Scott wrote:

James H wrote:I'm not being naive - and I know exactly what the views of some members of the BNP are. But the common MEDIA consensus is that the BNP are all white supremacists racists who want immigrants out. This is plainly wrong, because I have met members of the BNP before and had political discussions with them and they are certainly not racists.

If you think I'm going to swallow the tripe that's been served to you then you're going to be disappointed. The BNP are, and always have been, dedicated to pushing a white-only manifesto. If you're telling me that paid up members of the party don't know this then someone is telling porky pies here. Do you know what their activists do to families of colour living on their housing estates? Have you read about bricks through windows, shit through letterboxes and wood being piled up at their front doors and set alight?

What did these BNP people tell you they were out to achieve? I would be interested to know.

Regardless of what your views are, the BNP has the full right to operate as a political party in the UK, and encouraging attacks on them and making enemies of them is exactly the kind of behaviour that will only seek to promote their behaviour

I neither suggested they don't have a right to voice their opinions within a political organisation, nor did I encourage anyone to attack them.

But I would be lying if I said I didn't find it at least ironic that now they may know what it is to be targeted without "just cause".

The member I met post-lecture told me that they were out to fight against the overly PC attitude of the current government, as they put it - I think that means something along the lines of making lots of concessions for immigrants while indiginous Brits are left wanting? At no point did he say they were white supremacists - because there are Polish immigrants too, etc.

I also didn't say that you were encouraging people to attack them, so please don't paint me as that, because I like you, Mr Scott, but what are you suggesting from what you've said, apart from silencing the BNP?

James H wrote:The member I met post-lecture told me that they were out to fight against the overly PC attitude of the current government, as they put it - I think that means something along the lines of making lots of concessions for immigrants while indiginous Brits are left wanting? At no point did he say they were white supremacists - because there are Polish immigrants too, etc.

Perhaps unsurprising that the individual didn't announce themselves as a "white supremacist", but instead made vague sounds about the Government being "overly PC".

"All these immigrants are using up the NHS resources", "they all come over here and have their babies", "they're always the first on the list for housing while we have to wait". I've heard them all before, and they're well worn phrases which have been floating around since the 70s that I remember. Its got nothing whatsoever to do with NuLabour, or Blair or Brown. The same rhetoric was said in Thatcher's era.

Take those comments to their logical conclusion, James. If you try asking, "what would you do to change that", you'll get nearer to the truth of their manifesto.

Blacks, Asians, eastern Europeans - it makes no difference. "Britain for the indigenous whites" is the founding basis of the BNP.

I believe that there comes a time in your life where you have to make a choice about what you find acceptable, and what you do not.

I find the BNP ideology abhorrent, supremacist and harmful.

I'm not going to fall out with someone I know who may intellectually support an idea - but activists (named in the BNP document) operate with the approval of the party, and attack people and property based on their ethnic origin.

And they always will.

Its a short road to ethnic cleansing.

So make your mind up, James.

Gavin Scott wrote: And they always will.

Right, but what about the people that claim (they made up bullshit excuses for joining, that's not my point) they're EX members and whose names still went out on the list? What if there's a typo or a person with the same name in the same area? Bound to be a few outliers. Do they deserve the same treatment? Not necessarily straightforward.

My philosophy has always been that we don't stop the BNP: we beat them by outclassing and outthinking them. Making threatening calls to the people on that list are an easy cheap shot but they don't help anyone in the long run, they just polarise and make that journey back to rational politics a bit harder.

Sput wrote:

Gavin Scott wrote: And they always will.

Right, but what about the people that claim (they made up bullshit excuses for joining, that's not my point) they're EX members and whose names still went out on the list? What if there's a typo or a person with the same name in the same area? Bound to be a few outliers. Do they deserve the same treatment? Not necessarily straightforward.

It IS straightforward. No one - current or ex-members included - should be attacked in any way. I abhor violence as much as I hate bigotry.

So what do you want me to do about it? Wring my hands with worry about the position they find themselves in?

I don't think I can bring myself to do that.

Not wring your hands obviously, but perhaps see it's a bad thing. You seem to be saying it's a good thing right now.

Sput wrote:Not wring your hands obviously, but perhaps see it's a bad thing. You seem to be saying it's a good thing right now.

Think I'm gleeful, do you?

I see all violence as a bad thing, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. "String them up" isn't a mindset I hold, as I'm fairly sure you've all come to know. Ironic situation or not, I hope no harm comes to anyone over this matter.

Odd that I am being asked to condemn potential violent attacks against the BNP when no one seems to be backing up my immense sense of outrage about known BNP attacks against ethnic minorities for DECADES.

We are all outraged at the BNP's attacks on ethnic minorities, Gavin.

We are merely trying to understand your point - becuase (maybe wrongly) we seem to be deducing from your posts that you are encouraging and relishing the fact that the BNP may get a taste of their own medicine.

I'd like to hope that's not the case because I really don't want to change the opinion of you I'd built up.

James H wrote:becuase (maybe wrongly) we seem to be deducing from your posts that you are encouraging and relishing the fact that the BNP may get a taste of their own medicine.

I don't think Gavin is relishing it... and the kind of own medicine you talk about isn't the violence or the intimidation, it's the everyday casual racism that seems to be prevalent amongst those who err towards the BNP's position. Such apparently acceptable behaviour makes the minorities targeted by the BNP feel put upon. They feel as if they've been targeted for no reason. In the BNP's eyes that reason is because they are minorities. Now, the BNP feel they have been targeted for no reason, and are upset about it. The only thing Gavin is relishing in my eyes is the discomfort and unease the BNP members are feeling at being labelled and singled out by others, which is precisely what the BNP have been doing for years. It's a taste of their own medicine - but the mildest, least harmful medicine of them all.

James H wrote:We are all outraged at the BNP's attacks on ethnic minorities, Gavin.

I thought you said you didn't believe that the BNP are racist?

We are merely trying to understand your point - becuase (maybe wrongly) we seem to be deducing from your posts that you are encouraging and relishing the fact that the BNP may get a taste of their own medicine.

I'd like to hope that's not the case because I really don't want to change the opinion of you I'd built up.

Well that would be quite a shame; but I'm not going to segue this topic onto whether or not I am filled with schadenfreude. I have said what there is to say about that already.