Scottish independence

[thegeek]

The government, it seems, are running a little scared:

'No' campaign to offer radical deal as latest figures show 51-49% backing for end of the union

Amid signs of panic and recrimination among unionist ranks about the prospects of a yes vote on 18 September, the Observer has learned that a devolution announcement designed to halt the nationalist bandwagon is due to be made within days by the anti-independence camp.

The plan, in the event of a no vote, is that people from all parts of Scottish society – rather than just politicians – would be invited to take part in a Scottish conference or convention that would decide on further large-scale transfers of power from London to Holyrood.

It's as if they've just realised that if you give ordinary people the chance to be involved in politics, and actually be listened to, then they might just get involved in it. (It's something which was expressed fairly well by Deborah Orr in today's Grauniad.)

Surely if they were serious about this, they'd have come up with this idea back when the SNP's white paper was hitting doormats, not less than a fortnight before the poll.

[Gavin Scott]

Surely if they were serious about this, they'd have come up with this idea back when the SNP's white paper was hitting doormats, not less than a fortnight before the poll.

Well, quite.

The promise of jam tomorrow is pretty worthless though - the Scots Parliament as-is could be dissolved in a trice. It is within Westminster's gift to do what it will - and you don't have to go far to see that many prominent politicians have no intention of passing further powers to Scotland.

"Boris Johnson insists there is “no reason” for pledging more powers to the Scottish Parliament over tax and spending in the event of a No vote."

“If and when the Scots ‘bottle it’ on 18 September and vote no, they will see a stronger English voice because the people of England have had enough of Scottish self-indulgence,” said Paul Nutall, UKIP Deputy Leader.

The outcome of the next general election (and perhaps leadership election in the Tory party) will dictate the future - not some round table with token Scots before the vote.

Its a sham.

[scottishtv]

Published Sun 7th Sept, undertaken 2nd-6th Sept:
YouGov - Yes 47%, No 46%, Don't know 7%. Sample: tbc.
Excluding Don't knows - Yes 51%, No 49%.
Commissioned by The Sunday Times.

Published Sun 7th Sept, undertaken 2nd-4th Sept:
Panelbase- Yes 44%, No 48%, Don't know 8%. Sample tbc.
Excluding Don't knows - Yes 48%, No 52%.
Commissioned by Yes Scotland campaign.

[thegeek]

Meanwhile, the Mail are still giein it laldy with Project Fear:

We'll put guards on Scottish border: Ed Miliband reveals incendiary plan as Yes camp leads for first time in shock new poll
(complete with a badly Photoshopped image of the Péage de Saint-Arnoult near Rambouillet.)

[Alexia]

Well yes, there would have to be a border checkpoint, just as there is in France / Channel Tunnel. That's just sensible.

Not that it will stop the Middle English spluttering into their cornflakes tomorrow morning.

[robschneider]

Labour would just leave the door wide open surely, they do to everyone else!

[Alexia]

Labour would just leave the door wide open surely, they do to everyone else!

Oh bore off.

[thegeek]

Well yes, there would have to be a border checkpoint, just as there is in France / Channel Tunnel. That's just sensible.

What, you mean like there is between Northern Ireland and the Republic?

Wikimedia Commons

[robschneider]

Where's the actual crossover point? At the 80Km/H sign?

[Alexia]

Well yes, there would have to be a border checkpoint, just as there is in France / Channel Tunnel. That's just sensible.

What, you mean like there is between Northern Ireland and the Republic?

Nope. UK, Ireland, Vannin and Channel Isles are part of a common travel area, but are outside Schengen Area. Thus France/UK is in effect a "full" international border with full immigration / customs checkpoints etc while RoI/NI is free (nowadays). Not sure if Scotland want to be part of Common Travel Area or Schengen Area, depending on EU accession / post-indyref settlement with Westminster. If Mail story is to be believed, they seem to think Miliband will put full international border controls on Eng/Sco border. Of course this could just be usual bullshitting from Assoc.Newspapers and their anti-Labour anti-Scottish slant - two birds, one rock.

[thegeek]

Where's the actual crossover point? At the 80Km/H sign?

Yup - as Ireland's speed limits went metric a few years ago.

Not sure if Scotland want to be part of Common Travel Area or Schengen Area, depending on EU accession / post-indyref settlement with Westminster.

I was being slightly tongue in cheek. The Scottish Government's position is to remain as part of the Common Travel Area:

255. Will independence mean that Scottish people require a passport to travel to England?

No. Just as no one from the UK needs a passport to travel to Ireland now, there will be free movement across the border between Scotland and England.

The Common Travel Area has existed since the 1920s and currently allows freedom of movement for nationals of the UK, the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. It will be in the interests of all partners for an independent Scotland to remain in the Common Travel Area.

(incidentally, I believe that when landing at Dublin from the UK, you still have to pass through passport control - but aren't required to show a passport if you can convince the official that you're a UK or Irish citizen. The simplest way to do so, of course, is to show a passport.)