My Lovely Horse Lasagne

[bilky asko]

Basically yes. Hundreds of thousands of years of farming and husbandry have produced two distinct species - one we use as a resource and one we use as a tool. The semiotics associated with the horse are of a companion species which has a symbiotic relationship with the human race.

And yet, despite all the long words, you don't mention that most of Europe somehow reached a different conclusion despite having the exact same historical working relationship.

I've heard that donkey meat is now getting in on the act, so perhaps it's appropriate that you're talking out of your ass.

I'm not even going to dignify this low sneering attempted attack on my intelligence with a direct repudiation; you don't deserve that honour. Suffice to say, any sane person should realise my opinion stems from a British viewpoint; I don't claim to speak for foreign countries on this matter, whose morality compass when compared to ours on a variety of social and cultural issues varies from what some may term enlightened to frighteningly backward. We, for example, despite the relative disdain for the cow I described above, would never lower ourselves en masse to the kind of medieval brutality met out by Spanish matadors in continual pursuit of their "sport" in the Bullring. We tend to do our shopping there instead.

I would like to point out that the majority opinion of the Spanish people is against bullfighting.

[Alexia]

Perhaps, but it still exists.

And before any wise-ass compares it with fox hunting, whilst it is true fox-hunting was a barbaric cruel blood sport for toffs, it did have a secondary if wholly inefficient result of feral pest control. Cows may be pests to the ozone layer, but they never threatened economically-viable livestock.

[bilky asko]

Perhaps, but it still exists.

And before any wise-ass compares it with fox hunting, whilst it is true fox-hunting was a barbaric cruel blood sport for toffs, it did have a secondary if wholly inefficient result of feral pest control. Cows may be pests to the ozone layer, but they never threatened economically-viable livestock.

Of course no other animals are hunted in this country for fun...

[Alexia]

Of course there are, but there are, I'm led to believe from a country-dwelling acquaintance, secondary benefits to even the most detestable of blood sports. Bullfighting, as far as I can see, delivers a slow, lingering, painful, stressful death to an animal for mass human entertainment with no material gain or benefit whatsoever to said watching humans (it's not as the fans at the stadium all walk off with a free prime steak afterwards, is it, much less those watching at home on TV?). Deer stalking and pheasant shooting, while utterly repulsive activities, apparently have tenuous practical applications, to whit population control and provision of food. Whether you believe this or not is entirely your own choice. If I had my choice I'd ban it all tomorrow. Yet at the same time it's certainly disingenuous to compare a minority activity for a select few in the landed and wealthier classes to the kind of state-sanctioned gladiatorial spectacle of animal cruelty that passes for sport in the Iberian peninsula.

It's all immaterial to the discussion anyway. I only mentioned it in passing as an example of differing cultural attitudes between us and other countries because some arsehole deigned to nominate me as apparently speaking for the whole of mankind ever. Y'know, despite my use of "we" and "our culture".

[bilky asko]

Of course there are, but there are, I'm led to believe from a country-dwelling acquaintance, secondary benefits to even the most detestable of blood sports. Bullfighting, as far as I can see, delivers a slow, lingering, painful, stressful death to an animal for mass human entertainment with no material gain or benefit whatsoever to said watching humans (it's not as the fans at the stadium all walk off with a free prime steak afterwards, is it, much less those watching at home on TV?). Deer stalking and pheasant shooting, while utterly repulsive activities, apparently have tenuous practical applications, to whit population control and provision of food. Whether you believe this or not is entirely your own choice. If I had my choice I'd ban it all tomorrow. Yet at the same time it's certainly disingenuous to compare a minority activity for a select few in the landed and wealthier classes to the kind of state-sanctioned gladiatorial spectacle of animal cruelty that passes for sport in the Iberian peninsula.

It's all immaterial to the discussion anyway. I only mentioned it in passing as an example of differing cultural attitudes between us and other countries because some arsehole deigned to nominate me as apparently speaking for the whole of mankind ever.

Hundreds of thousands of people in this country hunt. Very few people in Spain are matadors. There is an audience for it, but people in the crowd don't take part. Not only that, but in some regions, the bull is never sacrificed - in others, it's banned altogether.

You mention state sanctioning - however, the state broadcaster doesn't show bullfighting. It is something that is becoming increasingly marginalised. (EDIT: This was until late 2012, when a different government brought it back, in a more limited form. In any case, it is still being marginalised)

We, as a country, cannot claim some sort of false superiority because of how we treat animals. Our meat standards are the highest in Europe, but we still partake in blood sports.

[Alexia]

There is an audience for it, but people in the crowd don't take part.

That's a rather oxymoronic Orwellian statement to make. Just by being there they are part of the whole shebang. The spectacle and the audience are one symbiotic form. They cannot exist without each other. Gods need religion, religions need gods.

By state sanctioning, I mean personal open approval from the King and PM.

If you read my post, you'll see I don't absolve our bloodsportists of their cruelty-based pursuits. But neither do I, nor can I, believe that people in this country in the 21st Century would flock in their tens of thousands week in week out to see ritualistic slaughter in the name of entertainment.

[Sput]

And yet, despite all the long words, you don't mention that most of Europe somehow reached a different conclusion despite having the exact same historical working relationship.

I've heard that donkey meat is now getting in on the act, so perhaps it's appropriate that you're talking out of your ass.

I'm not even going to dignify this low sneering attempted attack on my intelligence with a direct repudiation; you don't deserve that honour. Suffice to say, any sane person should realise my opinion stems from a British viewpoint; I don't claim to speak for foreign countries on this matter, whose morality compass when compared to ours on a variety of social and cultural issues varies from what some may term enlightened to frighteningly backward. We, for example, despite the relative disdain for the cow I described above, would never lower ourselves en masse to the kind of medieval brutality met out by Spanish matadors in continual pursuit of their "sport" in the Bullring. We tend to do our shopping there instead.

Actually the second bit was a bit harsh, so I do apologise. I couldn't resist the donkey/ass jibe.

Your phrasing IS getting a bit plymouthy, though.

[Gavin Scott]

I intend to DNA test all members for horse, donkey and Plymouth.

Second thoughts I could save a few pounds there - the final two tests are about the same.

[Sput]

Where shall I deposit my genetic data?

[Gavin Scott]

Just where you'd expect, really.

[Alexia]

Actually the second bit was a bit harsh, so I do apologise. I couldn't resist the donkey/ass jibe.

Your phrasing IS getting a bit plymouthy, though.

Apology accepted. I've been reading a lot of Christopher Hitchens lately. Must be rubbing off on me.