Metropol

Alexia wrote:I don't follow your argument that the use of Eire was political - surely the ORIGINAL use of Eire was by native Irishmen speaking their native tongue, professing their love for the goddess Eriu who looked after their land, long before those pesky English started invading.

All this stuff about goddesses and etymology is a bit of a red herring. Whether you're able to follow my argument or not is immaterial. Besides, it's not my argument, but a matter of fact. Ireland would not be widely referred to as Eire in Britain were it not for a political decision to do so. There is no other country that is referred to by English people, speaking English, in such a manner, as I've already pointed out.

And to be honest, whatever political thoughts and assumptions may have been held back in the day, they are surely long gone by now, seeing as any mention of Eire in British law was repealed in 1981.

They are of course long gone, as demonstrated by the amazing, historic week we've just had. But while you may use the Irish name Éire fondly, for many years it was used in a very different sense. Hence the Queen's very careful use of Ireland throughout her speech.

Seeing Eire everywhere (coins, stamps, government buildings etc) made me think it was widely used.

In English, which most of us speak most of the time, it's not. It's just not.

You know what? You meant no harm. Call it whatever you like. Life's too short. I don't know why I started this whole thing.

We use the term "Republic of Ireland" or "the Republic" in order to differentiate between Northern Ireland and well, what you're referring to here as Ireland.

It'd be confusing if there was a Korea, and a "North Korea", which is why they're referred to as North and South.

I don't use the term "Eire".

Ireland works perfectly well as a geographic term when referring to the island as a whole, and indeed when used within the borders of the 26 counties, but beyond that its use can easily create confusion.

Well then, let's hope we non-locals have seen the Eire of our ways.

*ZING*

I feel a bit sick

Against all my better judgement, marksi, I've succumbed to temptation and your post has dragged me back to this.

marksi wrote:We use the term "Republic of Ireland" or "the Republic" in order to differentiate between Northern Ireland and well, what you're referring to here as Ireland.

The problem is that it's not "what I'm referring to here as Ireland". It's the sovereign state recognized universally as Ireland.

It'd be confusing if there was a Korea, and a "North Korea", which is why they're referred to as North and South.

The difference being that Northern Ireland is not a country, but a part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, whose title makes the division of sovereignty abundantly clear.

Ireland works perfectly well as a geographic term when referring to the island as a whole, and indeed when used within the borders of the 26 counties, but beyond that its use can easily create confusion.

Ireland is the name with which the Irish state has referred to itself for decades. I don't know what confusion you're referring to. Obviously for the sake of clarity or explanation, Republic of or Irish Republic can be used. And people with certain political viewpoints can and will continue to refer to various bits of these islands as whatever the hell they want.

My overarching point (and as I've already said, I'm not entirely sure about the wisdom of having made it in the first place) was that amongst some people there is a limited awareness that the name of the state is simply Ireland. The qualifier "Republic of" tends to be overused and "Eire" need never be used in English. Having had the Queen acknowledge this (and the language used in her speech will have been picked through with a fine-toothed comb) in recent days, it just seemed a good time to point it out.

Really though, for the vast majority of people nowadays, the language they choose to use is not politically loaded. It's something that you could waste a lot of time arguing over, as I've demonstrated today.

marksi wrote:We use the term "Republic of Ireland" or "the Republic" in order to differentiate between Northern Ireland and well, what you're referring to here as Ireland.

It'd be confusing if there was a Korea, and a "North Korea", which is why they're referred to as North and South.

South Korea's official name is the Republic of Korea, while the dictatorship to the north likes to call itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. They are colloquially refered to as north and south to avoid potential confusion. Since your country is officially Northern Ireland, there is no reason to call Ireland anything other than Ireland.

eoin wrote:There is no other country that is referred to by English people, speaking English, in such a manner, as I've already pointed out.

Cote d'Ivoire. Sint Maarten.

EDIT : In addition to Chie's post above, and seeing as this is supposed to be an Olympic thread, the IOC designate "South Korea" as simply "Korea".

I'm bored by this now. As much as I am by the Olympics.

Meh.

Alexia wrote:

eoin wrote:There is no other country that is referred to by English people, speaking English, in such a manner, as I've already pointed out.

Cote d'Ivoire. Sint Maarten.

After I've gone into a great deal of detail explaining to you exactly why it is wrong to use Eire you have steadfastly refused to acknowledge it in the face of all the evidence I have presented you with and despite the fact that I, actually being Irish, might be better positioned to know about this than you.

Despite your refusal to give me so much as an "Oh, I never knew that before" I then had the good grace to apologise for making a mountain out of a molehill. And how do you respond? A nitpick at one small element of my argument.

And so I will sink to that level and bore marksi and everyone else even more. Your nitpick is invalid. Both of those countries request that they be referred to in English by those names. Cote d'Ivoire is the English registered name in the UN. Ireland requests the opposite and has in the past issued clarification that its name in English is in fact Ireland, not Eire.

So are you actually a member of the Continuity IRA or are you just going on and on and on and on and on and on about this for some other reason?

I'm with marksi, here, bored to tears.

Why not go back to discussing the Olympics?