we got a map through the door with all the planed changes - not one thing extra for our area. just the bus every 30-40 min peak and god knows when off peak.
Buggers!
Manchester congestion charge
Anyone else getting a tad sick of that advert with the guy who was Vik out of Coronation Street going on about the consultation process?
Luckily for me I'm in Cheshire. Although when I do go to Manchester I opt to drive usually, even though it takes longer than what it does on the train, but I prefer the convienience, even if the parking rate is sky high in the City centre. Okay the Train is easier to get, but usually nine times out of ten I can never get a seat, it's always full, if it was the other way round I'd get the train more often.
Slightly OT, did anyone else see the tram derailment today? What a good advert that was, a derailed tram and St Peters Square totally shut off to traffic to fix the line, I bet that was a nightmare to get round, which it is anyway.
Luckily for me I'm in Cheshire. Although when I do go to Manchester I opt to drive usually, even though it takes longer than what it does on the train, but I prefer the convienience, even if the parking rate is sky high in the City centre. Okay the Train is easier to get, but usually nine times out of ten I can never get a seat, it's always full, if it was the other way round I'd get the train more often.
Slightly OT, did anyone else see the tram derailment today? What a good advert that was, a derailed tram and St Peters Square totally shut off to traffic to fix the line, I bet that was a nightmare to get round, which it is anyway.
steve
I would imagine (although certainly I don't know for sure) under the franchising arrangements that taxpayers would already be subsidising those operations. Any additional funding would simply be an inducement to provide new services. I don't believe public transport is, on its own, a highly profitable industry. There are always going to be problems with fare evasion for a start, which will require investments in barriers and extra staff. Moreover you're talking about an industry that requires large sunk costs - if you want to build a new rail line, you have to invest millions of pounds in track and other developments before you can possibly hope to recover any of your costs by running services. Remember that, in most countries, it would have been the government who set up public transport in the first place - in some countries, they still do. While I abhor government intervention in competitive markets, I have no problem with government subsidies to private operators of public services. So long as they deliver value for money, such that they provide a service more efficiently and at a lower cost than government ownership would be able to achieve, then the public are better off.all new Phil wrote:There's been more on this recently, with adverts running on TV pretty regularly about it. There are claims that the congestion charge will be used to fund extra bus routes, more carriages on trains and more trams. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all of these services run by private companies? Private companies who stand to benefit hugely from this by way of greater numbers of passengers? It just looks to me as if they're going to spend loads of money on enabling the companies to make even more for themselves.
I don't agree that public transport should be free at all. Just as with anything, there is a cost associated with providing a service. If people are making use of that service, and they can be charged for doing so, then that is efficient. Government subsidies can be useful in ensuring the continued provision of services that otherwise wouldn't exist - where there are demonstrated net public benefits to retaining those services. They can also encourage the provision of more services in off-peak times, where these might not be on their own commercially viable, but could have the effect of stimulating demand.My solution to this? Free public transport within Manchester, paid for by the revenue from the congestion charge. Or, at the very least, incredibly cheap transport. I reckon this would work - it would cut congestion, and stop the transport companies from making huge profits as a side effect. As it stands, public transport is a very unattractive option as a) it costs too much and b) it is often inconvenient and time consuming. Reducing the first of these will make it a lot more attractive an option, and this will then lead to reducing the latter as more routes are added to cope with demand. Win win situation, shurely?
You suggest that public transport costs too much. Now, obviously I'm not aware of what the fares are in Manchester, but I would contend that if people regard them as being too expensive even given the soaring costs associated with private transport thanks to rising fuel prices, then you have a fundamentally broken system, and might as well do away with the whole thing. The costs of car usage are only going to increase, not only with rising fuel prices, but also increased taxes (such as congestion charges), and the impact of policies designed to mitigate the effects of climate change. These should all serve to make public transport a relatively more attractive option.
Having been in Manc last week and paid just £2 return (or thereabouts) from the city centre to Salford Quays, I thought it was quite reasonable.
I did however stay on the tram an extra couple of stops than I should have owing to me thinking that it was Salford Quays I wanted to get to, when in fact MediaCity is a couple of stops further on, so perhaps I got a bit of a bargain.
I was going to check the names of the stops just now on the Metrolink website but Google is telling me it is a site which may harm my computer.
I did however stay on the tram an extra couple of stops than I should have owing to me thinking that it was Salford Quays I wanted to get to, when in fact MediaCity is a couple of stops further on, so perhaps I got a bit of a bargain.
I was going to check the names of the stops just now on the Metrolink website but Google is telling me it is a site which may harm my computer.
That reminds me, I've been on the trams for free a couple of times, long story but a few years ago we saw Man U play at Old Trafford, when it ended we needed to get back to the City so tram was the only option, anyway everybody leaves at the same time so the stops are chaos, we couldn't get to the machine, so we got on a well over crowded tram which took us to Piccadilly and nobody checked the tickets.marksi wrote:Having been in Manc last week and paid just £2 return (or thereabouts) from the city centre to Salford Quays, I thought it was quite reasonable.
I did however stay on the tram an extra couple of stops than I should have owing to me thinking that it was Salford Quays I wanted to get to, when in fact MediaCity is a couple of stops further on, so perhaps I got a bit of a bargain.
I was going to check the names of the stops just now on the Metrolink website but Google is telling me it is a site which may harm my computer.
Up until a couple of years ago if you were caught without a ticket then it was a £20 fine, so I think alot of people risked that as for the times I used the Metrolink rarely was my ticket checked.
steve
Ticket inspectors work in different ways, sometimes they get on and check tickets between stops, what tends to happen is a load of people jump off when they see them waiting at the platform as they're always wearing bright orange jackets and are easy to spot (though I have once seen them in plain clothes). Sometimes they just target 1 stop and will block all exits all morning. Sometimes they do this and hold the tram while they check everyone on the tram too.
Checking tickets on the tram is less common during rush hour or Man United home days etc as the trams are just too crowded. The main issue with the trams is overcrowding. In mornings and evenings the rush hour everyone is so tightly packed, all it takes is a cricket/football match at Old Trafford and your struggling to breathe. And of course those on the way to matches are a bit more boisterous and will push and shove and not give a toss about anyone else on the tram. Though apparently some extra trams are due in 2011 to alleviate the problem. Metrolink's only other solution to overcrowding so far has been to increase prices, it's cheaper than buying extra trams you see.
Checking tickets on the tram is less common during rush hour or Man United home days etc as the trams are just too crowded. The main issue with the trams is overcrowding. In mornings and evenings the rush hour everyone is so tightly packed, all it takes is a cricket/football match at Old Trafford and your struggling to breathe. And of course those on the way to matches are a bit more boisterous and will push and shove and not give a toss about anyone else on the tram. Though apparently some extra trams are due in 2011 to alleviate the problem. Metrolink's only other solution to overcrowding so far has been to increase prices, it's cheaper than buying extra trams you see.
*whistle*
