Metropol

StuartPlymouth wrote:School uniforms do serve a purpose in that they remove the need for sartorial competition. In any school there are always going to be children from better off and less well off families. It's a competitive enough environment without adding the pressure of who is wearing the latest fashion.

I've always hated this argument. Not just because school uniform is a bit of a sore topic with me, since I spent my last few years at school fighting various layers of education authorities and local government to recognise my right to not wear it but it seems to forget that kids exist after 3pm. Perhaps the ultimate vision is to distribute grey jumpsuits to every child so that we can try outlaw any differentiation between anyone.

The key problem with school uniforms is that so many students end up wearing them with such disdain that they just look a mess. My old high school, like most I imagine, used to insist we wear our shirts tucked in. Students, of course, never did. So during my last couple of years, they reformed the school uniform to bring in a new style of shirt which was designed specifically to look neater untucked (more like a casual shirt than a business shirt). The prototypes were well received, and in principle the idea was great. However in reality, most of the younger students ended up wearing shirts two sizes too big, so the whole thing looked even worse.

So, while I'm not completely insensitive to Stu's comment about 'sartorial competition', I honestly think most of the time students would look more respectable wearing t-shirts and jeans.

Mr Q wrote:The prototypes were well received, and in principle the idea was great. However in reality, most of the younger students ended up wearing shirts two sizes too big, so the whole thing looked even worse.

Yeah but that's the case for almost everything in year 7..if your shoes aren't three sizes too big and the school shirt more like a smock then either your family is loaded or something is wrong.

Back when I lived in Brisbane there was a private school that banned its students from eating in their school uniform in public. That would have to be the height of pettiness.

I find school uniform seems to work best when they're selectively strict about it. My school's actual uniform was black trousers, and white polo shirt and red jumper. So long as you didn't wear jeans and came in wearing red and white they usually let you away with it. Plus they turned a blind eye to trainers which made everything more comfy.

Because of this, those who would probably rebel against the uniform (including me) seemed to instead come in in a variation on the theme. Red long sleeved with white short sleeved on top was particularly fashionable when i was in fifth year.

Currently I'm approaching the end of A level year and I've got to say I love my school's policy on uniform. It's different throughout the system - the Y3-6 have a dark blue blazer, grey or black trousers, a blue and red tie and a dark red jumper (and for the girls, a tartan skirt). Y7-8 have the same, but with a dark red and black tie and a grey skirt for the girls. Y9-11 have a black blazer with all other features the same, and for the Sixth Form (or Y12-13) it's suits.

It's here that the uniform rules become a little more vague. For guys it's got to be a suit, with a shirt and tie. But girls blur the rules - traditional office wear is the standard, but at what point do ra-ra skirts and knee-high boots become officewear?

Uniform is extremely important because it shows people that you come from a school and that you are proud to come from that school. I think this is also very important to a student's mental image of the school and how they behave and learn within that environment. If a school's uniform is a polo shirt, sweatshirt and jogging bottoms, it's not going to garner a very professional image, nor is it going to be too enticing to the student, who I would imagine can't wait to get out of the thing at 4pm.

James H wrote:Uniform is extremely important because it shows people that you come from a school and that you are proud to come from that school. I think this is also very important to a student's mental image of the school and how they behave and learn within that environment. If a school's uniform is a polo shirt, sweatshirt and jogging bottoms, it's not going to garner a very professional image, nor is it going to be too enticing to the student, who I would imagine can't wait to get out of the thing at 4pm.

I *strongly* disagree. I had my motivation for being at school - I knew academically what I wanted and needed to get out of it, and I had great friends. Although I probably wouldn't have been saying it at the time, by and large it was a great experience. Without trying to be too arrogant, I did well at school. At no point was I compelled to take pride in my school, or identify with it. I knew very early on that as an institution, I didn't need to invest any emotion in the concept of the school to benefit from it, and it was clear to me that the promotion of uniform was nothing more than a device to try and fabricate a reputation and image that would completely belie the reality of a fairly horrid culture. I absolutely refuse to believe that wearing uniform has any correlation with people's attitudes, behaviour or commitment.

If you want to avoid students not being able to "wait to get out of the thing", then perhaps this can be achieved through more direct ways of actually making the prospect of learning remotely attractive - I don't have the answers to how that's done, but I know it doesn't start with forcing someone to sling a tie around their neck.

You concede that uniform is used to garner a "professional image" and that's precisely what concerns me. Absolutely, schools have big roles in their communities, but again that comes down to what they actually do, rather than a carefully crafted marketing message. In my last couple of years at school a "business manager" was brought in, the heads became the "senior management team", and teachers became "curriculum leaders". With every passing day, it seemed to become more bogged down in acting as a PR campaign, rather than a place to inspire learning and the sharing of ideas. Over those last couple of years at that school, I must have spent a good hour a week going through the motions of being lambasted for my decision not to wear uniform, including being told I was personally responsible for endangering the school. Time taken away from studying for Highers and Advanced Highers which I wanted and needed to try and pursue a life.

I don't have a problem with schools passively trying to instill a bit of spirit, futile as I believe it is - but there's a very fine line between that, and chasing an elusive image which serves absolutely no-one.

All very well, I'm not saying that schools should go down the business route - calling a head a "Chief Executive" as one school does up here is absolutely bonkers.

BUT wearing your uniform with pride is another thing. Being able to say yes, I wear this uniform because I am proud to go to this school is something that needs to be instilled. It's not a PR campaign as such, but more a way to make a community feel better about its school.

Maybe instead of taking the attitude that community spirit should be instilled (you WILL have fun), it'd be better to let that kind of thing grow itself. It might not be immmediately evident but I'm sure it'd be a far more effective way to get people on side that telling them what they have to do.

James H wrote:BUT wearing your uniform with pride is another thing. Being able to say yes, I wear this uniform because I am proud to go to this school is something that needs to be instilled. It's not a PR campaign as such, but more a way to make a community feel better about its school.

I'm curious as to why that's important. You say the pride in one's school needs to be instilled in students. But why? I would argue that pride is something that itself ought to be earned, not just merely assumed when somebody puts on some clothes. Don't misunderstand me, I was proud to go to the school I did. But it wasn't the school uniform that made me feel that, and indeed I'm not convinced that my wearing the school uniform was the most effective display of that pride either.