Scottish independence

[Gavin Scott]

Are you sure? alot of people hate Alex, and never voted for him, yet he was elected, I bet thats how David got in.

So many people voted for him that he won a landslide majority in a parliamentary voting system designed to produce coalitions.

I'm sure. Are you?

[barcode]

Are you sure? alot of people hate Alex, and never voted for him, yet he was elected, I bet thats how David got in.

So many people voted for him that he won a landslide majority in a parliamentary voting system designed to produce coalitions.

I'm sure. Are you?

Thats the point its like MRS T voters, half of them never admitted to voting for her yet she always won...

[Gavin Scott]

Are you sure? alot of people hate Alex, and never voted for him, yet he was elected, I bet thats how David got in.

So many people voted for him that he won a landslide majority in a parliamentary voting system designed to produce coalitions.

I'm sure. Are you?

Thats the point its like MRS T voters, half of them never admitted to voting for her yet she always won...

What you just said bears no logical relation to what you argued.

[barcode]

Its the only loophole in the system, SNP got enough vote outright compared to the smaller parties who failed to gain the minimum required number of votes to get a seat.

I see no one can still answer my question about the EU.

[thegeek]

Mind you, and no one can answer this, Why should I vote YES, to get away from Westminster when we'll still be stuck with EU and its stupid and awful ways? like dealing with the hard hitting problems of the world like having to powerful hoovers.....

In which case, vote no; and vote for the Tories in the next general election; and vote to get out of the EU in their referendum. That's how democracy works.

Electric motors are inefficient: a large percentage of their power intake is turned into heat. By limiting the power consumption of vacuum cleaners, manufacturers will be forced to come up with more efficient motors, or more aerodynamic cleaners which will give you more suction power for less power. Overall, we all use less energy. Is this stupid an awful?

(meanwhile, the EU are not trying to ban kettles: the Express have clearly bent a story to meet their agenda.)

[barcode]

Mind you, and no one can answer this, Why should I vote YES, to get away from Westminster when we'll still be stuck with EU and its stupid and awful ways? like dealing with the hard hitting problems of the world like having to powerful hoovers.....

In which case, vote no; and vote for the Tories in the next general election; and vote to get out of the EU in their referendum. That's how democracy works.

Electric motors are inefficient: a large percentage of their power intake is turned into heat. By limiting the power consumption of vacuum cleaners, manufacturers will be forced to come up with more efficient motors, or more aerodynamic cleaners which will give you more suction power for less power. Overall, we all use less energy. Is this stupid an awful?

(meanwhile, the EU are not trying to ban kettles: the Express have clearly bent a story to meet their agenda.)

I think that is pretty poor response, to my point. Who say the companies will created even more suction power for less power hoovers? The hoover compaines have had a early xmas thanks to rush, and then there continue to sell the crappy less powerful modules

My point is EU should be dealing with the much bigger problems in the EU, like Immigration, jobs, etc but there don't because there don't care. You do know the amount of food the EU produces could help wipe out of the world hunger. Lets not go down the road about how fruit and veg needs to look nice, wasting even more good food.

Also you need to watch this programme http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20j88 ... 1_creation

[dosxuk]

My point is EU should be dealing with the much bigger problems in the EU, like Immigration, jobs, etc but there don't because there don't care. You do know the amount of food the EU produces could help wipe out of the world hunger. Lets not go down the road about how fruit and veg needs to look nice, wasting even more good food.

This sounds exactly like the argument many use about the police - that they shouldn't be fining / arresting / investigating anything minor, like speeding, assaults or simple theft, until they've solved all the big news cases, like murders, corporate tax evasion and hoodies standing outside shops.

The EU would be failing in it's mission I all it cared about was the big news issues. That said, the looming energy crisis could rapidly become a big issue if we have a few brownouts.

[Gavin Scott]

My point is EU should be dealing with the much bigger problems in the EU, like Immigration, jobs, etc but there don't because there don't care. You do know the amount of food the EU produces could help wipe out of the world hunger. Lets not go down the road about how fruit and veg needs to look nice, wasting even more good food.

Also you need to watch this programme http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20j88 ... 1_creation

Do me a favour would you - keep the euro-babble out of this thread. Its not germane. Go and stick it in a thread dedicated to Cameron's referendum.

A piece from this week's New Statesman re-treads the turgid and circular discussion Martin Anderson and I have
had about the vote:~

"The predominant reactions in England seem to be "what have we done?", "what don't they like about us?" and "please stay with us, we really like you". As touching and maternalistic as it seems, the reaction in Scotland to this is often "why do they always think it is about them?" In some ways it is, but not in the way most English think. In most cases it has nothing to do with England or English people (or Welsh or Northern Irish)."

It may fall on deaf ears but you never know.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... d-holyrood

And this is now circulating the twitterspere (I'm told - I fucking hate twitter).

[barcode]

Ok, but can I just say, If I do vote yes,( anything can still go) then I want to make sure it will be for the right reasons, and has the best chance to move the country forward. It has to be all or nothing, not half arsed. EVERY aspect of has to be looked at before making such important decision about how to vote, thats why polls have been changing.

If Nicola sturgeon was the show piece of the YES I bet it would be even tigher,

[Critique]

I want to make sure it will be for the right reasons

Maybe I'm just reading into it a bit much, but whichever way you vote surely you will be voting that way for what you believe to be the right reasons? You're not exactly going to vote yes (or no) for all the wrong reasons!

[Gavin Scott]

Ok, but can I just say, If I do vote yes,( anything can still go) then I want to make sure it will be for the right reasons, and has the best chance to move the country forward. It has to be all or nothing, not half arsed. EVERY aspect of has to be looked at before making such important decision about how to vote, thats why polls have been changing.

If Nicola sturgeon was the show piece of the YES I bet it would be even tigher,

Well Barcode you'd be a pretty foolish man if you chose to vote for the wrong reasons.

There's a significant number of No voters on my Facebook timeline who, like you, are competely hung-up on Salmond - seemingly oblivious to the fact that independence campaigning is cross-party and grass-roots - millions of people. Perhaps that is where they've failed to capture imaginations.

As to "half-assed" or "all or nothing" - well, they are your terms - a framework in your own head. If the yes vote succeeds then the detail will be worked through in pragmatic negotiations. Every sensible player in the piece acknowledges that. Its in everyone's interests to make it work. Can we use the pound? Apparently so. Will we still be using the pound in 5 years? Possibly not. Can we re-enter Europe with minimal fuss? A preponderance of the evidence suggests yes. Will the rUK continue in Europe? Less easy to say.

The YouGov Poll has been released.