Metropol

Gavin Scott wrote:

martindtanderson wrote:

thegeek wrote: mdta - the question of Scotland being independent does affect the rest of the UK, but if affects Scotland far more. That's kind of the point of self-determination: you don't let someone else decide it for you.

I don't disagree that the decision on Scotland becoming independent is for the Scottish people alone (and with my Dad's parents being from Glasgow, I feel some connection).

But how that independence is constructed should not be for Scotland alone. How "assets" are divided needs to be a joint discussion. Things such as the currency, the BBC, and Border controls for instance, will greatly affect both sides of the border.

I do not trust Alex Salmond to play a major role in those negotiations, and I think any "controversial" arrangements need to be put to the remainder of the UK to decide on. This divorce is not in response to an actual event, but is at the "whim"/behest of one party - so there should not be any punitive aspect to "who gets what".

Your hatred of Salmond is well known - despite you not being able to quote a single "English hate" comment.

Have you even done 2 mninutes of research on any of this? You sound like a damned fool.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/Govern ... dependence

Read the link before replying.

Sentiment isn't always in what is said, but how you purport yourself, and the impression you leave in the hearts and minds of the people. There is a strong Anti-English sentiment at work here, which as a proud pro-independence Scotsman, you may not pick up on.

martindtanderson wrote:Sentiment isn't always in what is said, but how you purport yourself, and the impression you leave in the hearts and minds of the people. There is a strong Anti-English sentiment at work here, which as a proud pro-independence Scotsman, you may not pick up on.

Its in your head, not mine, and not his.

This vote is about where power lies - its got nothing whatsoever to do with what you feel.

Pull yourself together.

The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding 4 between them and others, to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of the rest of the United Kingdom.

Gavin Scott wrote:

martindtanderson wrote:Sentiment isn't always in what is said, but how you purport yourself, and the impression you leave in the hearts and minds of the people. There is a strong Anti-English sentiment at work here, which as a proud pro-independence Scotsman, you may not pick up on.

Its in your head, not mine, and not his.

This vote is about where power lies - its got nothing whatsoever to do with what you feel.

Pull yourself together.

The vote should be about more than politics. It is a decision about the heart, as well as more practical decisions.

martindtanderson wrote:

The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding 4 between them and others, to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of the rest of the United Kingdom.

Yes Martin - that's the commitment Scotland and England signed up to.

Oh, did you think you'd caught us out on something?

Its always been the intention to split the union in a way which is fair and amicable to both parties.

You just ASSUMED the worst (again) from Scotland.

But you were wrong.

martindtanderson wrote:The vote should be about more than politics. It is a decision about the heart, as well as more practical decisions.

Its not a decision about the heart.

If I said it was, you'd be flinging braveheart and William Wallace references at me.

If I say its not, you want to talk about 300 years of tradition and brotherhood being cast asunder.

Its about having our votes count for something and having decisions made in Scotland.

Gavin Scott wrote: Yes Martin - that's the commitment Scotland and England signed up to.

Oh, did you think you'd caught us out on something?

Its always been the intention to split the union in a way which is fair and amicable to both parties.

You just ASSUMED the worst (again) from Scotland.

But you were wrong.

I am not assuming everything, nor am I criticising all Scots who want independence. I just question hoe the campaign has played out, and I dislike how Alex Salmond uses bluster and "passion" in place of facts about what an independent Scotland will look like, and the reasoning he is giving why independence is needed.

Gavin Scott wrote:Its not a decision about the heart.

If I said it was, you'd be flinging braveheart and William Wallace references at me.

If I say its not, you want to talk about 300 years of tradition and brotherhood being cast asunder.

Its about having our votes count for something and having decisions made in Scotland.

I am neither in favour nor against the vote. What will be, will be. I just want the choice to be made for the right reason, and for the campaigns to be positive, truthful, and not pitting Scots against English.

Being in Scotland, and involved in the decision making, you will not see things in the same way as many Brits/English do. There is an assumption that everyone outside Scotland want a Right Wing perpetual Conservative government, and that Scotland is some how hard done by thanks to us English, and we are almost blamed for every ill being suffered in Scotland.

It may not be explicit, it may have some truth to it in the eyes of some. But it hardly feels like a positive campaign, in the best interests of all concerned, and has lead to bitterness and an almost Blackmailing vibe from Alex Salmond, making demands in which the rest of the UK has no say in.

It is a potential divorce, instigated by Alex Salmond and the Scottish, without any infidelity or abusive behaviour on the part of the English. (That is how I see it)

martindtanderson wrote:It is a potential divorce, instigated by Alex Salmond and the Scottish, without any infidelity or abusive behaviour on the part of the English. (That is how I see it)

Yeah, there I was thinking that a couple of million Scottish people want to have their votes count for something when they vote for Government, when ACTUALLY its about one man who didn't walk the dogs and change the nappies in the fantasy marriage you imagined.

No wonder you can wave off the entire process as trivial.

Gavin Scott wrote:

martindtanderson wrote:It is a potential divorce, instigated by Alex Salmond and the Scottish, without any infidelity or abusive behaviour on the part of the English. (That is how I see it)

Yeah, there I was thinking that a couple of million Scottish people want to have their votes count for something when they vote for Government, when ACTUALLY its about one man who didn't walk the dogs and change the nappies in the fantasy marriage you imagined.

No wonder you can wave off the entire process as trivial.

I didn't vote for the Tories, that doesn't want me to separate myself from the UK...

martindtanderson wrote:

Gavin Scott wrote:

martindtanderson wrote:It is a potential divorce, instigated by Alex Salmond and the Scottish, without any infidelity or abusive behaviour on the part of the English. (That is how I see it)

Yeah, there I was thinking that a couple of million Scottish people want to have their votes count for something when they vote for Government, when ACTUALLY its about one man who didn't walk the dogs and change the nappies in the fantasy marriage you imagined.

No wonder you can wave off the entire process as trivial.

I didn't vote for the Tories, that doesn't want me to separate myself from the UK...

Its always about you, isn't it.

martindtanderson wrote:

Gavin Scott wrote:

martindtanderson wrote:It is a potential divorce, instigated by Alex Salmond and the Scottish, without any infidelity or abusive behaviour on the part of the English. (That is how I see it)

Yeah, there I was thinking that a couple of million Scottish people want to have their votes count for something when they vote for Government, when ACTUALLY its about one man who didn't walk the dogs and change the nappies in the fantasy marriage you imagined.

No wonder you can wave off the entire process as trivial.

I didn't vote for the Tories, that doesn't want me to separate myself from the UK...

Are you sure? alot of people hate Alex, and never voted for him, yet he was elected, I bet thats how David got in.

Mind you, and no one can answer this, Why should I vote YES, to get away from Westminster when we'll still be stuck with EU and its stupid and awful ways? like dealing with the hard hitting problems of the world like having to powerful hoovers.....

barcode wrote:EU and its stupid and awful ways? like dealing with the hard hitting problems of the world like having to(o) powerful hoovers.

Mark this as a red letter day!

I agree with Barcrud!

Gavin Scott wrote: Its always about you, isn't it.

Considering I don't have a vote, and my opinion does not matter in any way whatsoever - why are you bothered I am finding the campaign unpleasant and am not either strongly in favour or strongly against.

Why should anyone in England give a shit as it doesn't matter what any of us think. Scottish matter, for Scots alone.