Regards EuRef2
The petition is ridiculous, you can't impose a threshold after the event.
However I do support a second ref but via more sensible means. I mean Labour got get elected on a snap election, promising to hold a second ref before everything is finalised. However that would need that useless cretin Corbyn to be removed and someone competent to be in charge.
I suspect the tories might come back again, but then hold a second "confirmation" ref, after getting a load of cushy little things from the EU.
The BIG MetroPoll - IN or OUT ?
Worth pointing out that petition was actually posted a month ago- when they presumably could still have moved the goalposts. It's just only gained traction since the referendum. I don't think the petition by itself will do anything, but it could be the start.
When it comes to Corbyn, he'll probably be gone soon, as soon as the party are able to hold a vote of no confidence. Of course it's worth pointing out the same percentage of SNP voters went for Brexit as Labour ones (not to mention the lower turnout there- especially the 56% in Glasgow!), but the knives aren't out for Sturgeon...
I have emailed my MP on the subject though. I just feel a narrow 52-48 result for such a massive step (which Farage said he'd push for another ref if it was that result the other way), and the age groups that will be most affected by this overwhelmingly voting to stay in are grounds for it being looked at again.
When it comes to Corbyn, he'll probably be gone soon, as soon as the party are able to hold a vote of no confidence. Of course it's worth pointing out the same percentage of SNP voters went for Brexit as Labour ones (not to mention the lower turnout there- especially the 56% in Glasgow!), but the knives aren't out for Sturgeon...
I have emailed my MP on the subject though. I just feel a narrow 52-48 result for such a massive step (which Farage said he'd push for another ref if it was that result the other way), and the age groups that will be most affected by this overwhelmingly voting to stay in are grounds for it being looked at again.
I agree with the threshold idea, simply because the barrier to change has to be higher than the barrier to maintaining the status quo. As it stands, we'll be sinking billions of pounds into this operation, not to mention many times that in short term market issues, as a result of what was effectively a random decision. But it should have been done beforehand. I don't think the creators of the referendum ever dreamed it would be this contentious or this close.
As for this being a disaster - well it's not what I voted for, but there are upsides and I'm cautiously optimistic. Italy is ever teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and I suspect it's only a matter of time before the likes of Italy need an EU bailout, so maybe we can avoid chipping in when that happens. Also it has to be said we have called the EU's bluff - and if we do get an amicable divorce it really would be 'having our cake and eating it' - I guess it remains to be seen whether they call ours.
As for this being a disaster - well it's not what I voted for, but there are upsides and I'm cautiously optimistic. Italy is ever teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and I suspect it's only a matter of time before the likes of Italy need an EU bailout, so maybe we can avoid chipping in when that happens. Also it has to be said we have called the EU's bluff - and if we do get an amicable divorce it really would be 'having our cake and eating it' - I guess it remains to be seen whether they call ours.
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Martin Phillp
- Posts: 1539
- Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 01.28
It's rumoured that the petition was started by a Vote Leave campaigner who thought they would lose.james2001 wrote:Worth pointing out that petition was actually posted a month ago- when they presumably could still have moved the goalposts.
TVF's London Lite.
If that's true, then it's backfired!
2.4 million now, it's really gained traction. That's over double the population of Birmingham! 1.6 million more signitures than the second biggest petiton on there!
I do wonder what figure would be needed for the government to really take notice? 5 million, 10 million, 20 million? Not that I expect it to get that high (well, I guess 5 million is just about reachable, but the others aren't).
2.4 million now, it's really gained traction. That's over double the population of Birmingham! 1.6 million more signitures than the second biggest petiton on there!
I do wonder what figure would be needed for the government to really take notice? 5 million, 10 million, 20 million? Not that I expect it to get that high (well, I guess 5 million is just about reachable, but the others aren't).
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bilky asko
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48
The government shouldn't listen. Over a million people more wanted to leave than remain; the percentages don't make that obvious. Getting one answer to 60% and to increase the turnout just wouldn't happen in any case.
Which bit? EU Ref 2 Electric Boogaloo?bilky asko wrote:If that happens I will eat Paddy Ashdown's hat.WillPS wrote:I think a second referendum, possibly at the beginning of an Article 50 declaration (itself probably years away) is what will happen though.
I think it's telling that the leave campaign is now saying that we should not immediately invoke Article 50; despite the fact that every day that goes by is another day when (according to that same campaign) we lose £50m to the EU.
I also think there are a lot of expressions of regret from leave voters, and there will be more as it becomes increasingly apparent that just about every claim they made about leaving will be shown to be inaccurate.
If the result was the other way around there is *no way* Farage et al would have simply accepted the result and packed up. Farage was already warming up for a claim that the referendum was rigged as the polls closed.bilky asko wrote:The government shouldn't listen. Over a million people more wanted to leave than remain; the percentages don't make that obvious. Getting one answer to 60% and to increase the turnout just wouldn't happen in any case.
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bilky asko
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48
My hat comment was in response to the second referendum.WillPS wrote:Which bit? EU Ref 2 Electric Boogaloo?bilky asko wrote:If that happens I will eat Paddy Ashdown's hat.WillPS wrote:I think a second referendum, possibly at the beginning of an Article 50 declaration (itself probably years away) is what will happen though.
I think it's telling that the leave campaign is now saying that we should not immediately invoke Article 50; despite the fact that every day that goes by is another day when (according to that same campaign) we lose £50m to the EU.
I also think there are a lot of expressions of regret from leave voters, and there will be more as it becomes increasingly apparent that just about every claim they made about leaving will be shown to be inaccurate.
If the result was the other way around there is *no way* Farage et al would have simply accepted the result and packed up. Farage was already warming up for a claim that the referendum was rigged as the polls closed.bilky asko wrote:The government shouldn't listen. Over a million people more wanted to leave than remain; the percentages don't make that obvious. Getting one answer to 60% and to increase the turnout just wouldn't happen in any case.
Farage would of course have done a Sturgeon. That doesn't mean it would have been the right thing to do.
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robschneider
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Wed 14 Aug, 2013 14.53
I see the argument for IndyRef 2, but not EURef 2. This petition is basically like playing a football match over and over until the desired result is achieved. The Remain camp are, basically, sore losers.
And if the result was Remain you'd say the same thing?robschneider wrote:I see the argument for IndyRef 2, but not EURef 2. This petition is basically like playing a football match over and over until the desired result is achieved. The Remain camp are, basically, sore losers.