Metropol

Alexia wrote:Having a quick look through the system, it seems that between 6 and 8 of the scheduled services from Paddington are being cancelled per hour. These are not just InterCity 125 services, but Thames Valley driver-only services. It would seem that there is an effect occurring.

I've gone back through the departure boards on NRE for the whole day, the only service all day showing as cancelled from Paddington is a Bristol service, there are also a few Swanseas showing as 'delayed' which should have got to their destination by now so clearly were also cancelled. It still amounts to only 3 or 4 services all day, everything else is showing as running. Does Trust show something different?

Alexia wrote: It is worth remembering that although most mainline drivers are in ASLEF, some shunters and depot pilots are RMT, so if there's no-one to bring an empty train off of the depots, the train won't run.

So obvious solution is to send the drivers to the depots to bring them into the station themselves (particularly easy in the case of places like Exeter TMD which is effectively on the station anyway)? Obviously if there's a tight turnaround this may make some services late and some may have to be cancelled if the delay would cause it to lose it's route, but it's better than nothing. Whilst I'm sure it won't be that simple, is there any real reason why this can't happen other than 'job description' or 'union'?

Alexia wrote:There's another wrinkle to this - some trains and stations had operational incidents (dispatch attempts against a red signal, doors on catches, communication procedure with Signaller not followed) and as such bodies such as RAIB and CIRAS are keeping a close eye on the situation to make sure that FGW are not wilfully putting passengers in danger by running trains with underqualified and non-competent staff; and that competency is not being given out willy-nilly / under political pressure from "above".

For the record, had a 'door on catch' emergency stop out of Exeter on Friday, and that was with the correct qualified people running the train and the station! Also thought it a bit bad that the guard did not make any announcement explaining what had happened given that most people on the train would not understand what this was. A few people were a bit concerned.

cwathen wrote:

Alexia wrote:Having a quick look through the system, it seems that between 6 and 8 of the scheduled services from Paddington are being cancelled per hour. These are not just InterCity 125 services, but Thames Valley driver-only services. It would seem that there is an effect occurring.

I've gone back through the departure boards on NRE for the whole day, the only service all day showing as cancelled from Paddington is a Bristol service, there are also a few Swanseas showing as 'delayed' which should have got to their destination by now so clearly were also cancelled. It still amounts to only 3 or 4 services all day, everything else is showing as running. Does Trust show something different?

Upon your mention of this I took a look at how Paddington had been performing today, and I couldn't find a single cancellation on the page! However, looking at Realtime Trains for today at Paddington, it would appear that cancelled services were not showing up ordinarily, on the RTT website at least, because the cancelled trains were cancelled in the 'long term timetable'. Changing the filter to display trains cancelled under this (as has been done on the page above), and it would appear that plenty of trains were cancelled indeed! By my count 14 passenger trains were cancelled between 11am and midday alone, and plenty more throughout the day (299 trains cancelled in total, including empty trains!). In comparison, 463 trains ran (and this includes every train out of Paddington, including Heathrow Express and Connect, not just First).

cwathen wrote:So obvious solution is to send the drivers to the depots to bring them into the station themselves (particularly easy in the case of places like Exeter TMD which is effectively on the station anyway)? Obviously if there's a tight turnaround this may make some services late and some may have to be cancelled if the delay would cause it to lose it's route, but it's better than nothing. Whilst I'm sure it won't be that simple, is there any real reason why this can't happen other than 'job description' or 'union'?

Drivers sign routes. If you don't sign the route to and from the depot, even if that route is a matter of metres, you can't drive a train over it. Simple as that.

For the record, had a 'door on catch' emergency stop out of Exeter on Friday, and that was with the correct qualified people running the train and the station! Also thought it a bit bad that the guard did not make any announcement explaining what had happened given that most people on the train would not understand what this was. A few people were a bit concerned.

My point exactly. If a door on catch can happen with a fully qualified TM and up to two dispatchers working, imagine what could happen at a station like Exeter St D with just a green supply manager, no dispatch staff etc?

Discretion of train manager with regards to announcements to avoid unnecessary panic or alarm - most will just say "a problem with one of the doors which has now been rectified".

Critique wrote:

cwathen wrote:

Alexia wrote:Having a quick look through the system, it seems that between 6 and 8 of the scheduled services from Paddington are being cancelled per hour. These are not just InterCity 125 services, but Thames Valley driver-only services. It would seem that there is an effect occurring.

I've gone back through the departure boards on NRE for the whole day, the only service all day showing as cancelled from Paddington is a Bristol service, there are also a few Swanseas showing as 'delayed' which should have got to their destination by now so clearly were also cancelled. It still amounts to only 3 or 4 services all day, everything else is showing as running. Does Trust show something different?

Upon your mention of this I took a look at how Paddington had been performing today, and I couldn't find a single cancellation on the page! However, looking at Realtime Trains for today at Paddington, it would appear that cancelled services were not showing up ordinarily, on the RTT website at least, because the cancelled trains were cancelled in the 'long term timetable'. Changing the filter to display trains cancelled under this (as has been done on the page above), and it would appear that plenty of trains were cancelled indeed! By my count 14 passenger trains were cancelled between 11am and midday alone, and plenty more throughout the day (299 trains cancelled in total, including empty trains!). In comparison, 463 trains ran (and this includes every train out of Paddington, including Heathrow Express and Connect, not just First).

Is RTT definitely correct though or is this some side effect of a non-standard timetable being loaded? I've not perused the whole lot but for example the 19:06 to Bedwyn shows as cancelled yet on Rail Enquiries it shows as having run 2 minutes late off Paddington and 1 minute late off Slough - I know NRE isn't perfect but I've never seen it show late departures on trains that didn't run.

Should just mention that ALL staff in my depot - union, non-union and other-union members, all came out on strike / declared themselves unavailable to work today.

I concur! Loading the actual timetable up alongside the cancellation list seems to, in every example I've looked at, show service being cancelled in one listing, and then in another listing show that the service has ran as scheduled, albeit with a few minutes delay.

Well a week on and here we are again. I will have some disruption tomorrow as the only early service out of Torbay will be the Crosscountry service not stopping at Torre so I'll have to either get up obscenely early for work (double-whammy of getting an earlier train that's further away from my house) or pay extra to get a bus to Newton Abbot to make the connection there. Apart from that though, a pretty comprehensive service still in operation and most curtailed routes have workarounds in place. FGW even have the confidence to include the line 'Most trains will run' in their PIS message which is a far cry from the predictions of impending doom during the first strikes.

As with last time, the only people being hurt are the passengers, without which the railway wouldn't exist and nobody on it would have a job anyway. FGW from their continued failure to move will clearly tolerate doing this every few weeks ad infinitum.

I may well have my views on the validity of the cause, but regardless of whether or not the cause is a righteous one, at some point the RMT is going to have to accept that this technique isn't going to work - announcing yet more strikes in September will achieve nothing, and I hope they have the sense not to do that.

cwathen wrote:As with last time, the only people being hurt are the passengers, without which the railway wouldn't exist and nobody on it would have a job anyway. FGW from their continued failure to move will clearly tolerate doing this every few weeks ad infinitum.

That's interesting to know. I presume you are privy then to the details of what operational penalties First Group have had to pay then; and what effect the strikes have had on ticket sales as people choose to use other methods/work from home/whatnot?

WillPS wrote:

cwathen wrote:As with last time, the only people being hurt are the passengers, without which the railway wouldn't exist and nobody on it would have a job anyway. FGW from their continued failure to move will clearly tolerate doing this every few weeks ad infinitum.

That's interesting to know. I presume you are privy then to the details of what operational penalties First Group have had to pay then; and what effect the strikes have had on ticket sales as people choose to use other methods/work from home/whatnot?

as I believe you have said yourself, first group make an obscene amount of money. it of likely that they have a fairly large budget for penalties and as long as they don't go over it the bean counters will be happy. there is of course also some counter balancing in saving costs through less st
aff being in and fewer trains running.

in any event, my point was not about whether the strike will cost them, it's more that they are still running a train service and even on the 3rd round of strikes they are not budging. therefore continually announcing strikes is not proving effective here

Well clearly the RMT are idiots who have no clue how to get what they want.

Can't say much in public, but the strikes ARE having an effect, trust me. Watch this space - another union/company meeting scheduled for this week.

FGW will not want to continually lose £millions in cancellation fines and management overtime costs in perpetuity. If strikes are scheduled strategically - i.e. on weekends, it means workers will not lose that much in wages unless they planned on doing overtime.

In meantime, from my part of world, can confirm that once again, union, non-union and other union staff have all, 100%, chucked in their Sunday.