Conservatives

[martindtanderson]

Not wishing to be picky but The Sun has only recently (publically) switched its allegiance to the Conservatives after "supporting" Labour for 13 years since the 1997 general election. But that's more to do with Rupert Murdoch not wishing to back a loser more than anything.

My mistake, only the Daily Mail has been Pro Tory, and the Sun has been a backer during the 18 year conservative administration.

[Chie]

The government forcing young people into some faux army training, no that's a decent thing to do to people... Lets up the age so you are included, and force you into this scheme, how would you feel about that. Can you not empathise with people different from you??!? I guess you wouldn't be so pro Tory if you could...

You said it was obscene to say the 'ASBO Generation' was a tiny minority, and stated the 16.6% figure. So I ask you again, are all that 16.6% criminals, and which is tinier, 16.6% or 83.4%

Nobody has mentioned army training or the word criminals apart from you. I'm sorry but you're being far too hysterical and reactionary about this.

I would be more than willing to take part myself, in fact I'm currently bulking up with the aim of applying to join the Navy. I have absolutely no idea where your presumption that I wouldn't be happy to do it myself came from.

I was making the point, that those two papers have always been Pro Tory, not that you read them.

I don't read newspapers but I actually spend more time on the Guardian website than any other newspaper website, so if you did have another preconception about which papers I read, that just shattered that one as well.

Define practical...

A practical approach as opposed to an academic one that's all based on theories. And no targets or league tables either.

[Beep]

in fact I'm currently bulking up with the aim of applying to join the Navy.

just

[Chie]

just

What?

[Gavin Scott]

I would be more than willing to take part myself, in fact I'm currently bulking up with the aim of applying to join the Navy. I have absolutely no idea where your presumption that I wouldn't be happy to do it myself came from.

Well, with respect, you're approaching your mid 20s and haven't worked nor paid into the National Insurance system, so it would be a reasonable supposition to imagine you would turn your nose up at non-paid work.

And FYI - you don't need to bulk up to be in the Navy - so perhaps you should head along to the recruitment office and sign up without further delay. They'd be happy to have you.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh - but you've written oodles here about employers, employees, the minimum wage and so on - and while you're talking the talk, you're not exactly walking the walk.

Even though I disagree with your views strongly, you do seem to be bright and articulate - so unless there's a reason I'm unaware of you could, and indeed should, be working and paying into the system to cover your share of police, education, hospitals and so on.

Believe me, I say it in much stronger terms about the people I see floating around the city centre all day, every day.

[Chie]

Well, with respect, you're approaching your mid 20s and haven't worked nor paid into the National Insurance system, so it would be a reasonable supposition to imagine you would turn your nose up at non-paid work.

Gavin, I finished full-time further eduction just before the recession started two years ago and have applied for jobs ever since, with no success. While I can understand you being curious, this thread is about the Conservatives, not about me.

[Sput]

OH martin, will you please stop banging on about the daily mail? It's like watching someone lick the inside of a crisp packet to get the last of the salty goodness. If chie doesn't read it, he doesn't read it.

[Gavin Scott]

Well, with respect, you're approaching your mid 20s and haven't worked nor paid into the National Insurance system, so it would be a reasonable supposition to imagine you would turn your nose up at non-paid work.

Gavin, I finished full-time further eduction just before the recession started two years ago and have applied for jobs ever since, with no success. While I can understand you being curious, this thread is about the Conservatives, not about me.

Your continued contribution to the debate is welcome - but as with any points made on life, the universe and everything, its experience on the subjects that lend gravitas to the argument.

And although it may sound like I was simply being rude, you'll notice there's far more personal and cruel comments made on the hustings by the politicians themselves.

Sometimes to gain an understanding of the message, one needs to know a little more about the messenger.

I think its legitimate to point out that, if you're not fortunate enough to have a home and bills paid for by parents, things like minimum wage is a very real issue - rather than some abstract concept. Yes, if employers could pay everyone tuppence an hour then there may be more jobs; but there would also be more poverty and indeed crime. That's my view.

I am happy to read your views on such matters, but I also reserve my right to question if you speak with authority on the subject.

So far you've given as good as you've got - so lets carry on with the debate.

[martindtanderson]

OH martin, will you please stop banging on about the daily mail? It's like watching someone lick the inside of a crisp packet to get the last of the salty goodness. If chie doesn't read it, he doesn't read it.

Never said he did, just said he may agree with the types of stories they include, considering their pro tory stance.

[Chie]

Your continued contribution to the debate is welcome - but as with any points made on life, the universe and everything, its experience on the subjects that lend gravitas to the argument.

And although it may sound like I was simply being rude, you'll notice there's far more personal and cruel comments made on the hustings by the politicians themselves.

Sometimes to gain an understanding of the message, one needs to know a little more about the messenger.

I think its legitimate to point out that, if you're not fortunate enough to have a home and bills paid for by parents, things like minimum wage is a very real issue - rather than some abstract concept.

Fair enough. Well, you said it wouldn't be an unreasonable supposition to imagine I would turn my nose up at non-paid work, but I've spent a total of 13 months doing voluntary, unpaid work. In regard to living with my parents, I lived independently for just over a year when I was only 19. Furthermore, I've done everything for myself ever since I was about fourteen, that includes washing, hoovering, cleaning, cooking, the lot. I rely on my parents for the roof over my head and that's all. I by no means come from a cosseted and spoilt background.

That should be about all you need to know. I've grown to hate talking about myself.

[Gavin Scott]

Fair enough. Well, you said it wouldn't be an unreasonable supposition to imagine I would turn my nose up at non-paid work, but I've spent a total of 13 months doing voluntary, unpaid work. In regard to living with my parents, I lived independently for just over a year when I was only 19. Furthermore, I've done everything for myself ever since I was about fourteen, that includes washing, hoovering, cleaning, cooking, the lot. I rely on my parents for the roof over my head and that's all. I by no means come from a cosseted and spoilt background.

That should be about all you need to know. I've grown to hate talking about myself.

Really? Talking about myself is what I'm made for. I suppose I should be glad we have forums.

I stand corrected with regard to your voluntary work; although the "roof over your head" does encompass mortgage payments, council tax, gas, electricity, telephone/internet, possibly a TV subscription and of course the beloved TV Licence. And food, cleaning products, clothing and so on.

I'm not suggesting you don't contribute to some or all of these - more that within the context of how bloomin' expensive it is to merely pay one's bills, those things tend to cloud one's view on what a "living wage" is.

I didn't move out of my folks' house until I was in my 20s, so you're in good company. And if you get along with them and they're happy to have you there, then no one - least of all me - would criticise you for making that choice.

I recall how much poorer I felt with my office job wage when I came to rent a flat with all the necessary expense, though.