2015 UK Election
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robschneider
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Wed 14 Aug, 2013 14.53
I think you have to bear in mind that any party which has a back-to-basics approach will attract a group of people who have an old-school attitude to things like race relations.
The sad thing is that this is going to give UKIP the "racist" baggage that the BNP has as a hangover from the NF days. I don't believe they are a racist party. All they're doing is admitting the UK has a major immigration problem and it needs sorting out, something the other three aren't prepared to do.
The sad thing is that this is going to give UKIP the "racist" baggage that the BNP has as a hangover from the NF days. I don't believe they are a racist party. All they're doing is admitting the UK has a major immigration problem and it needs sorting out, something the other three aren't prepared to do.
What is the problem, what are the effects and what should be done about it?robschneider wrote:All they're doing is admitting the UK has a major immigration problem and it needs sorting out, something the other three aren't prepared to do.
"He has to be larger than bacon"
Let beat around the bush, when everything was fine and dandy no one cared, but as soon as everything went tits up the knifes come out.Pete wrote:What is the problem, what are the effects and what should be done about it?robschneider wrote:All they're doing is admitting the UK has a major immigration problem and it needs sorting out, something the other three aren't prepared to do.
The problem people have is very simple, Charity starts at home ie why are we helping everyone else yet the more people than ever are using food banks etc. People are also worried, because alot of workers at the side of the road are doing job well below min wage, which also means said people would not be paying any taxes etc.
So lack of job, pressures on the NHS, food banks alot of people think of you come in from france you got house, free money etc. Claim kid benafits for kids living 600miles away.
I could be wrong and everyone just hate the gispys and are not happy because of headlines like these: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... years.html Add in the Ch5 programmes.... and that is fueling the unhappyness.
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robschneider
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Wed 14 Aug, 2013 14.53
He beat me to it, but he's quite right.
We can get millions abroad but when we've people who need help here and aren't getting it, there's just not a strong enough case for it.
The immigration problem is a simple one. Too many people are coming in and our infrastructure simply isn't able to take it. The strain "health tourism" is putting on the NHS is really worrying. The problem is too many people know they can get so much here.
We need to set a limit and control it. You don't put 201 people on a 200 seater plane. If I had my way, I would have an Australian style system. You shouldn't come here unless you can support yourself.
We can get millions abroad but when we've people who need help here and aren't getting it, there's just not a strong enough case for it.
The immigration problem is a simple one. Too many people are coming in and our infrastructure simply isn't able to take it. The strain "health tourism" is putting on the NHS is really worrying. The problem is too many people know they can get so much here.
We need to set a limit and control it. You don't put 201 people on a 200 seater plane. If I had my way, I would have an Australian style system. You shouldn't come here unless you can support yourself.
The idea that "we give millions abroad" (I presume you mean in overseas aid?) yet there are people at food banks in the UK is always a strange one because that would mean we should give them... more benefits?
This figure also includes illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers who of course are unable to pay tax even if they wanted to.
What is often lumped in with health tourism is "non-permanent migrants" which is essentially workers and students. They *DO* pay tax and contribute and are cancelled out by reciprocal agreements with other countries helping UK citizens abroad. Out of the £1.8b figure once banded about by the DoH these count for £1.4b of that total.
Its appropriate how you put health tourism in quote marks. Actual health tourism (those who come here to exploit the NHS) is viewed to be around £150-300m which is a very small figure in the grand scheme of NHS spending. This of course is unacceptable but its not causing the downfall of the NHS.robschneider wrote:The strain "health tourism" is putting on the NHS is really worrying.
This figure also includes illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers who of course are unable to pay tax even if they wanted to.
What is often lumped in with health tourism is "non-permanent migrants" which is essentially workers and students. They *DO* pay tax and contribute and are cancelled out by reciprocal agreements with other countries helping UK citizens abroad. Out of the £1.8b figure once banded about by the DoH these count for £1.4b of that total.
"He has to be larger than bacon"
It's all scaremongering rubbish. Immigration from the EU (that UKIP wants to take us out of) has resulted in a net benefit to the UK economy. The numbers have been proven time and time again, as recently as November. And don't forget, it's not just those pesky Poles*, Lithuanians, Romanians etc. which UKIP supporters erroneously believe are "taking their jobs" that will be prevented from coming here, thus freeing up roadsweeping, room cleaning and of course plumbing jobs for the British Silent Majority. Coming out of the EU will also remove immigration from developed countries such as France, Germany, Sweden etc. Which will undercut our economy severely. My sister in law is Swedish, and speaks Swedish and English perfectly. As such, she is infinitely more qualified to work as an exporter for a UK-based company selling products to Sweden. I'd love to know which one of the UKIP People's Army of knuckle-dragging barely-educated lunkheads would be better qualified for that job.
As for a points-based system for non-EU immigration, well guess what, we already have one. Have done since 2008. Add into that the current ConDem cap of 24,000 immigrants and you actually get a fairly..er...fair immigration policy. However don't forget that the Right Wing like immigrants /unskilled labour / cheap labour / non-unionised labour. That's why posh 5-star hotels have Filipino housekeepers and Polish room service. That's why railway company agency contract cleaners are mostly foreign born. Farage et al are deeply ensconsed in this culture of having British taskmasters with immigrant staff. It's just a modern interpretation of slave ownership. Keeps the ££££ profits high.
* Any other baseball fans on Metropol will get this joke.
EDIT: Current foreign aid spending is capped at 0.7% of public spending, which means 99.3% is spent on the "home" or "native" population. What difference will less than a penny in the pound of taxation make to the lives of the native population that the other 99p isn't already making? It's so lazy to quote foreign aid in £x-million or £x-billion, as large numbers seem huge. However when your budget is £740-odd billion quid, a few million here and there makes absolutely no difference at all.
As for a points-based system for non-EU immigration, well guess what, we already have one. Have done since 2008. Add into that the current ConDem cap of 24,000 immigrants and you actually get a fairly..er...fair immigration policy. However don't forget that the Right Wing like immigrants /unskilled labour / cheap labour / non-unionised labour. That's why posh 5-star hotels have Filipino housekeepers and Polish room service. That's why railway company agency contract cleaners are mostly foreign born. Farage et al are deeply ensconsed in this culture of having British taskmasters with immigrant staff. It's just a modern interpretation of slave ownership. Keeps the ££££ profits high.
* Any other baseball fans on Metropol will get this joke.
EDIT: Current foreign aid spending is capped at 0.7% of public spending, which means 99.3% is spent on the "home" or "native" population. What difference will less than a penny in the pound of taxation make to the lives of the native population that the other 99p isn't already making? It's so lazy to quote foreign aid in £x-million or £x-billion, as large numbers seem huge. However when your budget is £740-odd billion quid, a few million here and there makes absolutely no difference at all.
See that's what living in a taxation democracy means. We earn money, then we give 10 or 20% of it to the government to spend. Once we give it away, it's no good whinging about what the government spends it on until you get a chance to vote them out. That's why you should read the manifestos.
Those immigrants that come here to take, take ,take... The ones who make up a tiny proportion of immigrants and really are not the source of all our problems. Yes, these people are unacceptable. But we have much bigger things to worry about.barcode wrote:Yet that is not the people, everyone is complaining about. I've heard many say I dont care about those who come here to work. its the ones who come here for the benafits etc. The ones you see on the Ch5 programmes or read in the Daily mail....