Metropol

Question (genuinely): At what point does it stop being past record and start being bitterness?

There's also the annoying line between considered bitterness and "ma fathah always voted labour" idiocy.

Scott Adams, the guy who draws Dilbert, once had a game where you'd follow tales of the stupid things people you know did with the line "and then he voted" as a way to show the main flaw in democracy.

I think something you should know about me is that I became opinionated a lot quicker than the rest of my peer group, and I started forming opinions long before they did, and I started questioning areas. For me, it's been the fact that Labour failed me entirely during my youth, and continue to do so - you won't believe how much I'm paying to go to drama school ,that's also crippling - and coming from a town where everyone votes Labour, that's just a huge desire to break free. I can't vote Liberal because up here it's a wasted vote, effectively - so therefore, I vote Tory... particularly as the party seems to, on the face of it, become a little less right wing every week.

James H wrote:I think something you should know about me is that I became opinionated a lot quicker than the rest of my peer group, and I started forming opinions long before they did, and I started questioning areas. For me, it's been the fact that Labour failed me entirely during my youth, and continue to do so - you won't believe how much I'm paying to go to drama school ,that's also crippling - and coming from a town where everyone votes Labour, that's just a huge desire to break free. I can't vote Liberal because up here it's a wasted vote, effectively - so therefore, I vote Tory... particularly as the party seems to, on the face of it, become a little less right wing every week.

It was the tories who commissioned the Dearing report which recommended scrapping funding for universities, wasn't it?

You could always have studied in Scotland. The Scottish Labour party, in 1999, reintroduced the Student Awards Agency, which pays the fees from a central pot. Just like most other EU countries.

You can see why the tories might have thought this was a good idea. After all - if you can afford a university education then that's terrific. No point in gifting awards to those who couldn't afford it.

At the risk of insulting you, isn't it possible that your rush to form opinions in your youth, coupled with the desire to "buck the trend" is getting in the way of facts here?

The current tories have broken their association with the "centre right" in Europe, and are now bedfellows with the extremist homophobes.

Seems very right wing to me.

Gavin Scott wrote:The current tories have broken their association with the "centre right" in Europe, and are now bedfellows with the extremist homophobes.

Seems very right wing to me.

I'm not bothered what their view is on homosexuality as long as they do a good job of sorting everything else out.

Again, I'm not going to not vote for them just because they wouldn't introduce proper gay marriage. There are infinity more important things going on at the moment that take precedence over some relatively trivial 'rights' of fewer than 10% of the population, which, frankly, we can live without.

Chie wrote:

Gavin Scott wrote:The current tories have broken their association with the "centre right" in Europe, and are now bedfellows with the extremist homophobes.

Seems very right wing to me.

I'm not bothered what their view is on homosexuality as long as they do a good job of sorting everything else out.

Again, I'm not going to not vote for them just because they wouldn't introduce proper gay marriage. There are infinity more important things going on at the moment that take precedence over some relatively trivial 'rights' of fewer than 10% of the population, which, frankly, we can live without.

Self hater, chie?

Gavin Scott wrote:Self hater, chie?

Nope. Just pragmatic.

Chie wrote:

Gavin Scott wrote:Self hater, chie?

Nope. Just pragmatic.

You really think that affording 10% of the population the same rights as the other 90% somehow detracts from more urgent matters of politics?

BULL

SHIT.

As a young gay man you should be ashamed of yourself.

Chie wrote:as long as they do a good job of sorting everything else out.

The chances of that happening are precisely zero.

Since everyone's definition of things being sorted is different, there is no way any political party can please everyone, and, more importantly, everybodys definition of what is important to them differs.

For example, I, and a lot of other people, believe that building more nuclear power stations in this country is required for us to continue to develop as a nation. A lot of other people believe that we should be closing the existing nuclear power stations, and concentrating on renewables instead to reduce the environmental impact of our development. Both valid viewpoints, held by a large amount of the population, and impossible for one party to please both sides. In opposition, a party seeking election can stand behind* "we believe we need to do this, but when in power we will commission a report to investigate alternatives and not make a decision until all aspects are fully understood", allowing them to seemingly please both groups without actually committing to a decision (which would upset a large number of potential voters).

* I have no idea what the Conservatives current stance on nuclear power is, mostly down to their** complete lack of actually announcing any policies*** on the build up so far.

** As well as Labour and the Lib Dems.
*** Other than "the opposite of Labour"

Gavin Scott wrote:

Chie wrote:

Gavin Scott wrote:Self hater, chie?

Nope. Just pragmatic.

You really think that affording 10% of the population the same rights as the other 90% somehow detracts from more urgent matters of politics?

Not matters of politics, Gavin. Matters that affect everyone in this country. Yes it would be nice to have the option of gay marriage. For me. But I'm not just thinking about me (or one aspect thereof) that would be inexcusably selfish. I'm thinking about everyone - the unemployed, pensioners, young working class people, etc.

Chie wrote:Not matters of politics, Gavin. Matters that affect everyone in this country. Yes it would be nice to have the option of gay marriage. For me. But I'm not just thinking about me, that would be inexcusably selfish. I'm thinking about everyone.

Politics, chie, is ALWAYS a matter of "what suits me". That's what democracy is.

You think "gay rights" is something purely about being able to get married? Its not. You're showing your age and lack of life experience - and yet you talked down to beep accusing him of not understanding mature topics.

The age of consent was still 21 when I was growing up - in fact I was older than you are now when it was changed. And just a couple of years before I was born, gay sex was a CRIMINAL OFFENCE.

You think its "trivial" because you have zero clue about how things were before. About how it was acceptable for young gay men to get routinely battered in the streets - blamed for "making a lifestyle choice" - when its nothing of the kind.

It takes nothing to enshrine rights for me and for you as gay men in the same way that straight people have - and yet you think that should be a low priority while politician ponder *really* important things, like road tax and digital switchover.

Shame on you.