Where did all the cars go?

[cwathen]

As others have said, the scrappage scheme killed the bargain basement market - and with it many bargain basement dealers - which meant that what should be bargain basement cars found themselves moving up a tier.

You only have to go back 10 years to find papers loaded with cheap cars under £500 and back street dealers with such vehicles on their forecourt. Infact an (at the time) 13 year old car I bought in 2004 for £475 and with a new MOT on it came from a dealer's forecourt and not the paper. Even adjusting for inflation, this just doesn't happen now.

I was always firmly opposed to the scrappage scheme - some people have to buy cheap bangers because they can't afford anything else and this scheme saw the scrapping of thousands and thousands of cars which had plenty of useful life left in them and would otherwise have been destined to fill that market. And quite frankly, those who are either rich enough or stupid enough to buy brand new cars didn't need a couple of grand knocked off for scrapping an old one.

This scheme did nothing other than line the pockets of dealers and made motoring on a budget an impossibility.

The reality of the situationis now apparrent when cheap cars for a few hundred quid have become few and far between, and cars which really should be selling for £500-£600 have suddenly become £1000 examples.

[Sput]

One good side effect: A load of relatively inefficient cars have been taken off the road and replaced with ones that have better emissions standards.

[cwathen]

One good side effect: A load of relatively inefficient cars have been taken off the road and replaced with ones that have better emissions standards.

But the problem with this is that these cars have been taken off the road but replaced with nothing - so what we are left with is the same sort of cars selling for loads more than they should be and the next tier of cars up being made unaffordable for a lot of people. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a flying fuck about the emissions standards of vehicles on the road, and trying to make this a 'green' issue has started to send motoring back to where it started - an activity for the classes not the masses. Doing that will ultimately only make people less mobile and it will harm the economy - and no consideration to the environment will ever be given until the economy is back on it's feet.

[Alexia]

One good side effect: A load of relatively inefficient cars have been taken off the road and replaced with ones that have better emissions standards.

A load of perfectly good serviceable vehicles were also taken off the road too.

[WillPS]

Just had a look at insurance for myself - on a 2003 Ford Ka I got a quote for £1090. That's far and away the best quote I've ever had - I'm 23.5, have I hit one of the points where insurance suddenly gets cheaper?

Still, with first year costs being something like £750 and £1000 or so for lessons, tests and all, then recurring costs of ~£1000+£50 for an MOT (assuming it passes) before you even drive anywhere... frankly you can get a lot of trains and taxis for that kind of money.

[rdobbie]

A load of perfectly good serviceable vehicles were also taken off the road too.

The scrappage scheme was a farce on so many levels.

1. Cars had to be taxed, MOTd and insured to be classed as "scrap". A contradiction in terms.

2. You had to be the registered keeper of the "scrap" car for 12 months before you could sell the car under the scheme (another contradiction, since the DVLA are keen to remind us that keeper status has nothing to do with ownership, and only the owner can legally sell the car).

3. People who own old bangers can rarely afford brand new cars (discount or no discount), so this scheme didn't benefit the masses.

4. In reality, the dealers were the only ones who benefitted from the scheme by hiding the £1k government subsidy within the discount they would have given you against a new car anyway, thus trousering the subsidy. (Margins are huge. By way of example, I once haggled a Ford dealer down from £9k list price to £6.5k on a brand new Fiesta. If that had been during the scrappage scheme, the dealer would have told me their lowest price was £7.5k but they'd knock another £1k off for scrappage, leaving them £1k better off).

5. It was "revenue neutral" for the government as any new car sale over £6.5k bagged them enough VAT to pay the scrappage subsidy and still be in profit.

Anyway, it was all one big gimmick designed to make people think the government was being creative and helpful, and to that end it seemed to hoodwink enough people.

[DVB Cornwall]

Rightly or wrongly, the amount of legislation affecting vehicle condition, number plates, and maintenance requirements, on the used vehicle market has resulted in a number of bucket shop businesses being removed from the marketplace.

[Sput]

A load of perfectly good serviceable vehicles were also taken off the road too.

The scrappage scheme was a farce on so many levels.

1. Cars had to be taxed, MOTd and insured to be classed as "scrap". A contradiction in terms.

2. You had to be the registered keeper of the "scrap" car for 12 months before you could sell the car under the scheme (another contradiction, since the DVLA are keen to remind us that keeper status has nothing to do with ownership, and only the owner can legally sell the car).

Those are eminently sensible rules to keep the right people benefitting: Number 1 is to ensure people aren't just going to sell off/get refunds on discounted new cars because they happened to have an old one rotting in a shed. Number 2 is to stop people buying a load of crap ancient ones and doing the same.

[cwathen]

Just had a look at insurance for myself - on a 2003 Ford Ka I got a quote for £1090. That's far and away the best quote I've ever had - I'm 23.5, have I hit one of the points where insurance suddenly gets cheaper?

The main 2 points to hit with insurance are turning 25 and 5 years no claims. Turning 25 is also the magic point at which most insurers will, in a comprehensive policy, provide third party cover on other cars which are not owned or kept by the insured and in which an insurance policy is in force. In short, that is the age at which you can legally drive other people's cars.

For me though, I didn't realise any saving. The cost of insurance has rocketed so much that despite being 29 (30 in 3 weeks), having a clean licence and 11 years of continuous insurance with no claims ever, I'm now paying more to insure a 1.1 Fiesta than I did to insure a 1.8 Rover 400 when I was 24. Even when I was 18, I have NEVER paid 4 digits for an insurance policy. The most I ever paid was £950 in my first year, and it dropped to £600 just with 1 year no claims.

[james2001]

A large amount of the rocketing insurance cost is due to the no-win-no-fee ambulance chasers and people claiming whiplash for the most minor of bumps. There's laws coming in force in April that should restore some normality to the situation, but how much difference it makes and whether any savings actually get passed on to us remains to be seen.

[all new Phil]

Possibly not the place for this, but I think the entire system of car insurance is shit. It is obligatory, and so the insurance companies can put the prices as high as they like because there's no choice but the pay it. Most of the time, you are paying them money for nothing. How does it work in other countries?