Metropol

wells wrote:Out of interest do the Irish mind the fact they're called the British Isles?

Very much so. It's not a phrase you'd hear the Irish government use

Is the Team GB thing due to the oddity of the UK's official two letter code actually being GB? Hence we were meant to have the domain .gb but wangled .uk back int he day due to JaNET compatibility?

Or is it just a branding cretin's stupidity?

Alexia wrote:

Malpass93 wrote:It should be Team UK, I agree with you there Mark. Seems wrong to leave Northern Ireland out of it.

As with many Irish things, it's complicated. Athletes from NI can choose to represent either Great Britain & Northern Ireland (which is the OFFICIAL name of the team - "TeamGB" is just postmodern pish for the Facebook generation) OR Eire.

Ah. I see. Every so often a young Northern Irish footballer becomes an ROI International and the NI manager kicks up a fuss on BBC Sport, must be something along those lines.

Alexia wrote:

Malpass93 wrote:It should be Team UK, I agree with you there Mark. Seems wrong to leave Northern Ireland out of it.

As with many Irish things, it's complicated. Athletes from NI can choose to represent either Great Britain & Northern Ireland (which is the OFFICIAL name of the team - "TeamGB" is just postmodern pish for the Facebook generation) OR Eire.

The English name of the republic bordering Northern Ireland to the south is Ireland. Not the Republic of Ireland, not the Irish Republic (which the BBC seem to be insistent in using lately) and most certainly not Eire. Eire was used by British governments at one time to undermine the legitimacy of the use of the name Ireland by the Irish government. During this time every other country and international organization accepted that name. Those days are over. The queen was careful to use the name Ireland throughout her speech on Wednesday night. It would be nice if her subjects would finally follow her lead.

For those confused as to the difference between UK, GB etc, I recommend this handy Euler diagram:

As pointed out by wells, the use of the term British Isles is disputed.

Apologies if I give the impression that I'm some kind of extreme Irish nationalist. I have lots of British friends and I see lots of positives in the way Britain has influenced Ireland. I am quite fond of Britain and was delighted to watch the queen's visit this week. But these little things irritate me.

eoin wrote:The queen was careful to use the name Ireland throughout her speech on Wednesday night. It would be nice if her subjects would finally follow her lead.

I realise ignorance is seldom a defence, but I had no idea about the etymology of the word "Eire". I'm sure no one would use it knowing it causes offence.

I would certainly never have seen any more problem calling Ireland Eire than calling Scotland Alba or Wales Cymru.

I'd assumed it was simply the name of the country in the native tongue and calling it such might be greeted positively, in a similar way to the first few words of the Queen's speech.

I don't ever remember any problems calling it Eire in my many dealings with Telecom Eireann in a previous life.

Nick Harvey wrote:I would certainly never have seen any more problem calling Ireland Eire than calling Scotland Alba or Wales Cymru.

I'd assumed it was simply the name of the country in the native tongue and calling it such might be greeted positively, in a similar way to the first few words of the Queen's speech.

I don't ever remember any problems calling it Eire in my many dealings with Telecom Eireann in a previous life.

Your assumptions are correct.

"Republic of Ireland" is used simply to differentiate it from the whole island. It is not used in the European Union: "Éire" and "Ireland" are, as both Irish and English are official languages of the European Union. In fact, it was nearly decided to make "Republic of Ireland" the official name.

"Irish Republic" was the name created in 1916 when Irish rebels claimed the island as independent. "Southern Ireland" was the name given by the UK, making it an autonomous region. "Irish Free State" was a name resulting from the Anglo-Irish treaty.

Therefore, "Ireland" and "Éire" are 100% correct, and "Republic of Ireland" is 100% correct if only used as a differentiating descriptor.

Nick Harvey wrote:I would certainly never have seen any more problem calling Ireland Eire than calling Scotland Alba or Wales Cymru.

I'd assumed it was simply the name of the country in the native tongue and calling it such might be greeted positively, in a similar way to the first few words of the Queen's speech.

I don't ever remember any problems calling it Eire in my many dealings with Telecom Eireann in a previous life.

Spot on : precisely the reason why I use it. Besides, the official language of Eire is Gaelige, English is a de facto official language through usage only.

My views on minor / Celtic languages and the need to preserve them are already well documented on this forum; as Beep knows all too well

Nick Harvey wrote:I would certainly never have seen any more problem calling Ireland Eire than calling Scotland Alba or Wales Cymru.

Yes, but you wouldn't call them that when speaking English really, would you? Nor would you call Germany Deutchsland or Spain España? So why call Ireland Eire?

What a lot of British people don't seem to realise (and this is not aimed purely at you Nick, though I hope you can take it on board) is that the use of the name Eire was originally political. Its use became so widespread in the UK that, although people may not have realised it, they were using a form of naming designed to undermine the legitimacy of the Irish state's claim to the name Ireland.

I can only presume that your counterparts in Telecom Éireann were too polite to point out to you that the name was wrong, as they probably recognised that you were unaware of its implications.

bilky asko wrote:Your assumptions are correct.

...

Therefore, "Ireland" and "Éire" are 100% correct, and "Republic of Ireland" is 100% correct if only used as a differentiating descriptor.

What makes you think you can assert this with such certainty? The internationally recognised English language name of the Irish state is simply Ireland, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Éire is not correct when speaking English, much as Nippon is not how you would refer to Japan. Republic of Ireland is a valid, but unnecessary, description of the state, but not its name.

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_t ... ith_the_UK

Alexia wrote:Spot on : precisely the reason why I use it. Besides, the official language of Eire is Gaelige, English is a de facto official language through usage only.

No, it's not. Ireland has two official languages, Irish and English. The use of English is not de facto, but de jure. This fundamentally wrong statement you've posted is ample evidence of how little you really know about the situation.

Please believe me, people. The name of our country is Ireland. When Brits refer to it as Eire it sounds deeply patronising and has echoes of past British attitudes.

[/rant]

Anyway, sorry for dragging this off topic. As I've harped on about Ireland quite a lot, I might as well look at this thread's topic from an Irish point of view. And I have to say, are you all mad?!!! I mean, we have a Dublin-everywhere else divide in Ireland too but it's nothing like that between London and the rest of the UK. Yes, it's a big corporate sellout and yes, all of the money will end up in London. But the Olympic Games will be in your country! It's a once in a lifetime thing and I suspect the buzz surrounding it will get to most of you sceptics by next summer.

EDIT: After reading this back, I realise the tone is a little heated. I know none of you meant to offend, apologies for my overreaction. The point still stands though, and I think it's an interesting bit of history, given that we usually think of such naming disputes belonging only in faraway places such as Taiwan or the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

My apologies, I indeed did misinterpretate my reading of the Irish constitution, Article 8:

1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.

I don't follow your argument that the use of Eire was political - surely the ORIGINAL use of Eire was by native Irishmen speaking their native tongue, professing their love for the goddess Eriu who looked after their land, long before those pesky English started invading. And to be honest, whatever political thoughts and assumptions may have been held back in the day, they are surely long gone by now, seeing as any mention of Eire in British law was repealed in 1981.

Obviously I'm very much a proud Celt (even though I have more English blood in me than I care to think about), and as such it is only through respect for the native tongue of your homeland that I use the word Eire for Ireland. My recent visit to your fair country was immensely gratifying for me, and like so many, Liz Windsor included, I fell in love with the place. Seeing Eire everywhere (coins, stamps, government buildings etc) made me think it was widely used.

Of course, if I'd wanted to be offensive, I could have used The 26 Counties...