Metropol

marksi wrote:

Jamez wrote:

marksi wrote:
If you can't afford them you shouldn't be having them. I'm not here to subsidise them, I already do that with maternity/paternity leave, family allowance and tax credits, not to mention paying for education.

Ahh but then only well-off, educated people would only be able to afford kids. That's not what socialism is about.

Look upon Labour/socialism as a large bureaucratic deity which follows similar principles to those of Robin Hood. Take from the rich or even moderately comfortable, and give it to the poor, disabled and bone idle.

Capitalism/Conservatism, even with its many faults, is the only way as far as I can see.

The proposed policy is a Conservative one. What has socialism got to do with the present Labour party?

I'm not talking about British political parties. We all know that both the Labour and Conservative parties are so closely aligined policy-wise, that it's hard to tell them apart. One is led by a half-blind Jock and the other is led by an opportunistic bandwagon toff.

Jamez wrote:

marksi wrote:

Jamez wrote: Ahh but then only well-off, educated people would only be able to afford kids. That's not what socialism is about.

Look upon Labour/socialism as a large bureaucratic deity which follows similar principles to those of Robin Hood. Take from the rich or even moderately comfortable, and give it to the poor, disabled and bone idle.

Capitalism/Conservatism, even with its many faults, is the only way as far as I can see.

The proposed policy is a Conservative one. What has socialism got to do with the present Labour party?

I'm not talking about British political parties. We all know that both the Labour and Conservative parties are so closely aligined policy-wise, that it's hard to tell them apart. One is led by a half-blind Jock and the other is led by an opportunistic bandwagon toff.

and all Party politics have 2 pockets.

Jamez wrote:...an opportunistic bandwagon toff.

Ah, thanks. I've been trying for ages to sum up Mr Bland.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cameron was dumped as leader and replaced with the infinitely better William Hague within the next 18 months.

The only hope the Tories have of winning a credible majority to form a government is to have a leader of substance, gravitas and conviction. Cameron doesn't appear to have any of the aforementioned in any discerning quantity.

It would seem the majority of people will only vote for the political party that will promise to help sustain and finance their hedonistic lives or at least their pursuit of them.

I'm a socialist (in the moderate sense, not the Trotskyist sense, and certainly not a Ben Shitliff). As such I look back at the last ten years and I see the minimum wage, the reduction in the unemployed and the improvement in investment in public services. But I also see a party which is so much ingrained with ordinary public life straying from its course.

I cannot agree with Conservatism in any shape or form. Under that policy, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you aspire to help your fellow man, then you help society as a whole rather than one proportion of it. Therefore, why shouldn't someone who earns £50,000 a year pay slightly more tax (as a percentage of their earnings) than someone who earns £5,000 a year?

Conservatism, as part of the right wing group of political ideologies, has also got associations that have nasty, vindictive, angry faces (think Melanie Phillips, the Daily Mail, Bill O'Reilly as well as the BNP and UKIP). Whereas extreme leftism (i.e. Communism) is all but dead and buried in the West, the extreme Right are highly prevalent and for some reason are allowed to get away with a lot of unacceptable behaviour.

There are all sorts of illogic applied to taxes. I don't drive, yet I have to pay a tax to my local council for the upkeep of the roads I don't use. I've never burnt my house down, yet I have to pay for the bloke opposite to have his put out by the fire department. I haven't been in hospital in nearly 20 years, yet a proportion of my pay packet goes towards paying a NHS consultant his overblown salary.

But who's to say tomorrow, I won't be badly burnt in a house fire that wasn't put out by an ill-funded Fire service; that I won't be rushed to hospital and have the worst uncomfortable ride ever on roads full of potholes; that I won't need life-saving blood transfusions from substandard blood?

Personally, I think the tax on cigarettes and alcohol should go straight to the NHS and that it should be as high as petrol duty.

The Conservatives voted in Cameron because they thought they needed an Anti-Blair. Now they need an Anti-Brown. Shame that they may have to dig up an old grave to get what they need. However, they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

Quote from William Hague after he lost the election in 2001:
"It is vital for leaders to listen and parties to change. I believe it is vital the party be given the chance to choose a leader who can build on my work, but also take new initiatives and hopefully command a larger personal following in the country. I've therefore decided to step down as leader of the Conservative party when a successor can be elected in the coming months..."

Effectively he is saying therefore that he is not fit for the job.

And we know who's name will be thrown straight back in the ring.

Ken Clarke.

I cannot agree with Conservatism in any shape or form. Under that policy, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you aspire to help your fellow man, then you help society as a whole rather than one proportion of it. Therefore, why shouldn't someone who earns £50,000 a year pay slightly more tax (as a percentage of their earnings) than someone who earns £5,000 a year?

Not many will dispute the fact that the more you earn the more tax you pay. There's a fixed percentage on what you pay out your annual salary. Whether you earn £15,000 or £150,000.

Conservatism, as part of the right wing group of political ideologies, has also got associations that have nasty, vindictive, angry faces (think Melanie Phillips, the Daily Mail, Bill O'Reilly as well as the BNP and UKIP). Whereas extreme leftism (i.e. Communism) is all but dead and buried in the West, the extreme Right are highly prevalent and for some reason are allowed to get away with a lot of unacceptable behaviour.

True. However, leftism also has its assortment of rogues, too!

There are all sorts of illogic applied to taxes. I don't drive, yet I have to pay a tax to my local council for the upkeep of the roads I don't use.

Errr...so you don't use buses, taxi's or cycle lanes or even pavements/sidewalks, then? What a silly comment.

And we know who's name will be thrown straight back in the ring.

Ken Clarke.

I doubt it, but you can't deny he's a man of substance and an ability to connect with the people.

There are all sorts of illogic applied to taxes. I don't drive, yet I have to pay a tax to my local council for the upkeep of the roads I don't use.

Errr...so you don't use buses, taxi's or cycle lanes or even pavements/sidewalks, then? What a silly comment.

To elaborate on what I mean by this: last time I checked, my bus to work takes a single route down a single road, but there are a few hundred other roads in the area which I don't use.

BTW - no apostrophe in the word taxis. And sidewalk is a silly Americanism.

If you look at my further comments regarding healthcare and fire service, you'll see that I pay for a lot of things I don't PRESENTLY use, but may do in future. I was actually arguing FOR reasonable taxation, and disparaging the illogical arguments regarding taxation.

True. However, leftism also has its assortment of rogues, too!

Yes but the last time I checked, none of them made any claims such as black people have smaller brains or that Israel had a misguided divine right to exist.

Sidebar: If we are to have a Holocaust Memorial Day, then we must too have a Native American Memorial Day, an Amazonian Native Memorial Day, a Celts Memorial Day.... or more recently, a Rwanda Memorial Day or a Bosnia Memorial Day. The whole world is given a perennial guilt-trip just cos one madman hell-bent on taking over Europe killed 6 million Jews.

Ken Clarke - man of substance who can connect to the people? How about THREE-TIME leadership contender (record: defeated, defeated, defeated) ? And the fact he is intimately involved in the fags business, which will now justifiably die on its arse? And the fact he was chancellor during the mid-90s when Britain's finances stalled terribly?

Pull the other one, it's got (blue)bells on.

Alexia wrote:

There are all sorts of illogic applied to taxes. I don't drive, yet I have to pay a tax to my local council for the upkeep of the roads I don't use.

Errr...so you don't use buses, taxi's or cycle lanes or even pavements/sidewalks, then? What a silly comment.

To elaborate on what I mean by this: last time I checked, my bus to work takes a single route down a single road, but there are a few hundred other roads in the area which I don't use.

BTW - no apostrophe in the word taxis. And sidewalk is a silly Americanism.

So you don't go anywhere other than to work and back?


Sidewalk is the word our American friends call a pavement. I wouldn't call it a silly Americanism. It is only daft when a Brit uses. Seeing as there are some Yanks that read this forum i'd say Jamez was justified in using it.

Nor do i travel 30 miles to work, thankfully. But i seem to clock up a few miles running around here there and everywhere to see friends family and generally running errands for others. My social life clocks up a fair few miles in a year.

However when i buy another house with a bigger garden i'm planning on going self sufficient. I already grow some veg and use the local farmers market which is a brisk 2 min walk from me.
I get my eggs from someone in the village my meat from a local farm. I'd like the time to rear my own chooks, pigs and every fruit and veg i can grow in season in my own garden, like my grandparents used to. When/if this idea comes to fruition i'd like to be subsidised. However will i be taxed more as the produce coming from livestock would be considered unhealthy? Sausage, bacon, eggs.

miss hellfire wrote:
However when i buy another house with a bigger garden i'm planning on going self sufficient. I already grow some veg and use the local farmers market which is a brisk 2 min walk from me.

Felicity Kendal you ain't!

Is it 'cos i don't have an Aga?