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Posted: Thu 20 Jul, 2006 11.10
by Dr Lobster*
Not The Chef wrote:Is it actually possible for PCs to be too fast for some operating systems? For example, if I were to install Windows 3.1 on my P4 with 2GB of RAM (letting go of the fact that it's NTFS disk...!) would it work? Or would it effectively trip up over itself?
i know that older versions of windows don't work with very large amounts of memory - they can't address it properly.

i've also seen applications created with very old compilers not working because of bugs in the runtime library - i've seen this in an the old borland pascal compiler.

Posted: Thu 20 Jul, 2006 23.38
by Neil Jones
Not The Chef wrote:Is it actually possible for PCs to be too fast for some operating systems? For example, if I were to install Windows 3.1 on my P4 with 2GB of RAM (letting go of the fact that it's NTFS disk...!) would it work? Or would it effectively trip up over itself?
Operating Systems came out for the computers and the hardware of the time. There will always come a point in any operating system's life when the speed of the processor is too fast for that operating system to cope with.

As previously stated, Windows 95 fell over at the 350Mhz mark. Windows 98 and ME fall over when you use them on 64-bit processors.

Likewise, Windows 98 falls over with more than 512Mb of memory installed (a quick fix can be applied for this though, but some programs don't like it).

Taking these considerations into account, Windows 3.1, having been designed around the painfully slow (at the time) 286s, 386s and 486s and early Pentium processors, would absolutely fly under a P4 processor, but I reckon it wouldn't run as its breaking point would have probably been a Pentium II.

Posted: Fri 21 Jul, 2006 13.06
by Not The Chef
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Posted: Fri 21 Jul, 2006 16.24
by cdd
Not The Chef wrote:Going the other way, what's the oldest machine anyone's managed to get XP working on?
I am certain one of the techy people here will trump it but I have it working on a low spec win98 laptop. It does not like the themed interface though and gets upset occasionally :(

Posted: Fri 21 Jul, 2006 23.42
by Neil Jones
Not The Chef wrote:Going the other way, what's the oldest machine anyone's managed to get XP working on?
I have seen it running on an early Pentium processor.

It wasn't very happy running on a P166 I think it was with 64Mb of RAM. It ran but took all day to load and you could actually see it drawing the Welcome screen on a line-by-line basis.

Posted: Sat 22 Jul, 2006 16.01
by cwathen
I have recently partioned my drive to install multiple operating systems to test something, so I'm not bothered if something fails. I am trying to install Windows 98 but it keeps complaining that it wants to format my C drive, the one I am using right now, though I want to install it on to a dtive H, one of the partitions.

How can I tell Windows 98 that I want to install it onto a drive other than C?
I realise you've now done it with Virtual PC, but the way to do this would be to create a second primary partition (not officially supported by Microsoft, but it does work) using a partitioning tool like PartitionMagic (you can't do it from Windows) and then changing it to be active. This changes that partition to C: drive and will then allow you to install Windows 98. To change back, you'd run FDISK from within Windows 98 and set your XP partition back to active.
Just been trying Windows 98 on Virtual PC and it's working fantastic. Thanks, guys. However, I've got hold of Windows 95 (or Windows 95b to be exact) and it doesn't want to load at startup for some reason (using the whole boot to cd procedure).

Why is this?
Do you mean the CD won't boot? This is because it can't. Windows 95 CDs were not bootable (neither were most Windows 98 CDs either). They came with a floppy disk which you used to boot the system and then run the setup program on the CD.
Windows 95 fell over completely when processor clock speeds started exceeding 350Mhz in mid 1998 and wouldn't boot. A patch was available, but only for AMDs.
IIRC, it was only AMD K6-2 and K6-III CPUs which were affected at the time, by the time it had problems with other CPUs it had become obsolete and so there were no more patches. I remember that patch well, had to use it myself. I loved the way that a patch you need to make Windows boot was packaged inside a Windows-based installer! You either had to continually reset your system until it would boot up succesfully (sometimes 30-40 attempts were needed!) or use another machine to extract the files!. Classic Microsoft that.
Is it actually possible for PCs to be too fast for some operating systems? For example, if I were to install Windows 3.1 on my P4 with 2GB of RAM (letting go of the fact that it's NTFS disk...!) would it work? Or would it effectively trip up over itself?
Windows 3.1/95/98/ME would have definite issues because they all directly access the hardware to greater or lesser degrees (in particular, these versions of Windows cannot deal with more than 512MB of RAM). However, really old versions of Windows which had real-mode support (so Windows 3.0 backwards) will run happily on new hardware.

It is actually possible to install Windows 3.0 from within a Windows XP command prompt, on an NTFS disk and all, and actually have it running *inside* XP in a Window if you use real mode (so you'd start it with win /r).
Going the other way, what's the oldest machine anyone's managed to get XP working on?
The only checks the installer makes are for memory and disk space. As long as you have 64MB of memory installed, it will install (especially since the installation programme dates back to MS-DOS 5.0 from 1991!). Whether it will run after that installation is anyone's guess. I've never tried XP on anything less than a Pentium 200.

I did once experiment with running Windows 95 below it's minimum specification - a 386 SX/16 with 4MB of RAM (it was supposed to require a 386DX). Although booting took an age (about 10 minutes!) it was actually perfectly useable once it had started up.

Posted: Sat 22 Jul, 2006 20.54
by Reeves
cwathen wrote:Windows 95 CDs were not bootable (neither were most Windows 98 CDs either). They came with a floppy disk which you used to boot the system and then run the setup program on the CD.
Just managed to get hold of a boot disk, and i'm left with "A:\>_". I've tried accessing the CD drive but I can't get it to work. It just pops up saying "Invalid Drive Specification".

What exactly do I need to type?

Posted: Sat 22 Jul, 2006 22.01
by Chris
Reeves wrote:
cwathen wrote:Windows 95 CDs were not bootable (neither were most Windows 98 CDs either). They came with a floppy disk which you used to boot the system and then run the setup program on the CD.
Just managed to get hold of a boot disk, and i'm left with "A:\>_". I've tried accessing the CD drive but I can't get it to work. It just pops up saying "Invalid Drive Specification".

What exactly do I need to type?
I think it's because you need to load CD drivers or somesuch shite off the floppy before booting into the installer. It's been a long time since I've actually set up Windows 98 on a computer.

Posted: Sun 23 Jul, 2006 02.21
by Reeves
Chris wrote:I think it's because you need to load CD drivers or somesuch shite off the floppy before booting into the installer. It's been a long time since I've actually set up Windows 98 on a computer.
The boot up disk contents were downloaded from a website that said "Includes CD Drivers"... and it's Windows 95, not 98. ;)

Posted: Sun 23 Jul, 2006 12.00
by Neil Jones
What messages are you getting on the screen when you boot off the disk with Virtual PC?

I presume you've done the obvious like associate a hard drive with this session of Virtual PC and told it to boot off of the floppy?

Posted: Sun 23 Jul, 2006 20.04
by Reeves
Neil Jones wrote:What messages are you getting on the screen when you boot off the disk with Virtual PC?

I presume you've done the obvious like associate a hard drive with this session of Virtual PC and told it to boot off of the floppy?
I've got the Windows 95 CD and Bootup Disk in the PC, and then Virtual PC runs the boot disk, leaving me with "A:\>". I've tried a few things after it like Setup, which failed, and then D: to access the D drive in which it appeared "Invalid drive specification". I'm simply trying to access "D:\Setup" though it won't let me.
Neil Jones wrote:Windows 3.1, having been designed around the painfully slow (at the time) 286s, 386s and 486s.
Also, what does 286s etc mean?