Dialup Internet

Neil Jones
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2003 20.03
Location: West Midlands

Sput wrote:Actually the 3 mile thing is *way* out of date now Jamez. It's provided to anyone with a line good enough to receive it, though 1 and 2 meg are limited to certain line stats.
In theory, everybody should now be able to receive at least 512k unless of course you either live so far away from the exchange its untrue or your telephone line has been routed in such a fashion that although you live within the boundaries as the crow flies your physical line travels far further than that.

Where I live the telephone exchange is "only" about 3km away as the crow flies, but because the physical line is over 5.5km (the previous official barrier for broadband 512k) due to the routing done by BT under the pavement I could not get broadband at all until last year.
Jamez
Banned
Posts: 2587
Joined: Sun 30 May, 2004 23.02
Location: Bristol

And the vast majority of BT's pathetic network in rural areas is STILL copper wires hanging loosely off wonky and rotting wooden telegraph poles in hedges.

This is Britain, not outer Mongolia! :roll:
User avatar
marksi
Posts: 1892
Joined: Wed 07 Jan, 2004 05.38
Location: Donaghadee

Jamez wrote:And the vast majority of BT's pathetic network in rural areas is STILL copper wires hanging loosely off wonky and rotting wooden telegraph poles in hedges.

This is Britain, not outer Mongolia! :roll:
But copper is good.

Part of the problem in NI was that BT replaced loads of copper with fibre links in the 1980s and early 90s to "future proof" the system, only to discover later that it had made things worse.
shaun
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 15.04
Location: Mid Cornwall

but that was because they used TPON which in a lot of places is being overlaid with good old copper.

note, jamez, that if copper is so antiquated, why does the majority of the US still run on copper? why does the UK still run on copper? because fibre is hideously expensive to run to each home and there's no point to doing it yet. if you want to pay BT the thousands to give them fibre to your home, go for it. those of us with EXCELLENT quality lines will enjoy what the DSL standards have to offer.

allegedly OLD copper lines behave better than that of NEW copper - especially so when the new copper lines have aluminium in one part of the link to the exchange to attenuation goes through the roof, and SNR goes down. - there is fibre out of every exchange, even the tiniest ones i bet.
shaun
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 15.04
Location: Mid Cornwall

Code: Select all

2600g> adsl status
  --------------------------- ATU-R Info (annex A) ----------------------------
   Running Mode            :    G.DMT       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          :  2272000 bps   US Actual Rate       :   288000 bps
   DS maximum Rate         : 11200000 bps   US maximum Rate      :  1120000 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   NE Current Attenuation  :    20.5  dB    Cur SNR Margin       :    35.0  dB
   DS actual PSDM(C)       : 00000007       US actual PSDM(R)    : 00003e77
   ADSL Firmware Version   : 41e2be2c
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :    10.0  dB    Far SNR Margin       :    30.0  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : 00b55453       CO ITU Version[1]    : 54430000
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < TI >
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   INTL, DSTREAM bytes/depth=   1, symbols/codewords  =   0, latency= 0*0.25ms.
       , USTREAM bytes/depth=   1, symbols/codewords  =   0, latency= 0*0.25ms.
   CODE, DSTREAM fast parity bytes=   0, fast codeword=  72.
         DSTREAM intl parity bytes=   0, intl codeword=   0.
   CODE, USTREAM fast parity bytes=   0, fast codeword=  10.
         USTREAM intl parity bytes=   0, intl codeword=   0.
   Setting>>
       FDQ : Enable, TCM : Enable, EC : Disable, Framing Mode : 3.
   Running>>
       FDQ : In Use, TCM : In Use, EC :    Off.
       DS : Framing Mode 3, US : Framing Mode 3.
   ADI ADSL Firmware Version: 41e2be2c
2600g>                                   
mmm, excellent SNR and loop attenuation - can't wait for any future DSL developments like ADSL2/2+, VDSL, VDSL2 etc to come.
Jamez
Banned
Posts: 2587
Joined: Sun 30 May, 2004 23.02
Location: Bristol

I'll be glad when community wireless broadband begins in a few years time.

It's already being trialled, so fingers crossed.
cwathen
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

I was informed by BT on Monday that I cannot receive broadband because they can't be asked to bother upgrading their shitty 1920s copper wires on decaying telegraph poles.

Broadband is only available to those lucky enough to live within 3 miles of the nearest exchange or have cable.

I have neither, because BT is a shitty and disgraceful monopoly which should be crushed and the entire telecoms network opened up
I feel that BT is rather unfairly treated. People complain about their monopoly (which is being removed) but then still seem to expect BT to take responsibility for everything to do with our phone network. Did it ever enter your head that BT have little incentive to upgrade their network if it means that other telecoms operators are going to use it and so they won't benefit from this upgrade?

I also think they've moved pretty darn quickly considering that high speed internet using ADSL *and provided to customers who BT only agreed to provide a voice service to* could never have been perceived to appear so quickly, not that long ago it looked like high speed internet would be provided by developments of ISDN to people who have specifically signed up with BT for internet use.

I think they're doing quite well, ending the use of the DACS system so that people have reliable internet access over their phone line, and developing longer distance cards so that most people can now get at least 512Kbps ADSL.

The smaller newer phone operators only manage to survive because there is the huge monolothic BT there to support them. You think the development of telecoms is being held back by BT's monopoly? Try a week without it: you be screaming for them to come back.
Gareth
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun 19 Oct, 2003 00.19
Location: Suffolk

Copper is the least of your worries! you could be on aluminium, which will more than likely be in a "mush" state. The lovely cheap invention of the 1970s but is unable to carry broadband signals! As a result BT have had to recable large areas of the country, one housing area in Aberystwyth had to be totally recabled a couple of years ago.

The DAX/DACS (dunno which one) is also a bain of your broadband life. When I tried to get broadband in Aberystwyth last year BT gave my ISP an activation date, which came, and passed without any broadband signal. Ok, so you ring your ISP support and they say "BT say all is working".

The problem was that BT hadn't anticipated that DAX, a system where more than one telephony signal goes down the same bit of wire was in evidence and it was ok'd at a higher level. It then took me about a month of "fruitful" telephone calls to BT Planning in Cardiff who, had two office reorganisations during this time and eventually managed to get the regional planning manager to do something!

Thankfully my ISP was nice and stopped billing me for the period!
cwathen
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

On a more serious note - try re applying when the ISPs roll out 8mb as there are no line limits to those products - you'll get the best speed the line can take and it will be very variable. I would recommend one with a 1month contract in case the line is really bad and keeps dropping.
It's like 56K all over again - where actual connection speed was more likely to be around 45K.
shaun
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 15.04
Location: Mid Cornwall

I meant that changing line conditions throughout the day can make the modem retrain at a lower speed though hopefully it would stay at that lower speed, and then the SNR can only go up and down to the minimum required by BT (6dB I believe). BT (wholesale) also have lots of equipment to evaluate the line during the first 10 days of ordering, and I believe the lowest sustainable sync speed is selected as the speed you can train. If this is because you had a problem line and that is now cleared, any decent ISP can put you through the evaluation process again.

So if my line was only capable of 288kbps most of the time (raw ADSL speed), but I sometimes managed 576kbps, I think the equipment would set the line at 288kbps so it stayed connected @ 288kbps, not a dropping 576kbps. I believe any sync under 288kbps is classed as a fault, and BT will try to improve the line to get it up to 288kbps.

The line can also be set from fast to interleaved which improves error correction at the expense of latency (40ms ish added to pings).

The above is my interpretation and possibly has errors but I'm sure it's 99% there.

(by BT = BT wholesale, not BT openreach or retail)
Please Respond