Metropol

nodnirG kraM wrote:

cat wrote:Sleaze, lies, scandal, poor economic management, etc etc etc... and they want it all back.

Sleaze - Mandelson, Keith Vaz, Al Fayed
Scandal - Blunkett, Mandelson, Cherie's househunting, Campbell
Lies - WMDs, continuation of student grants
Poor economic management - 2001's £9bn shortfall increasing all the time, economy shrinking since 2000.

Whichever party you vote for you're gonna get the same lies, scandal and sleaze.

Not sure what you mean by 'Al Fayed', from memory Al Fayed described the Conservatives as a party run by people who ''would sell their mothers''. He was the one who was pivotal in exposing their corruption in the 90s.

Vaz and Mandleson combined really are nothing on the scale of the Tories action - cash for questions... homes for votes...

Blunkett, well, to be honest I feel sorry for him in a way. Seems like she is a bit of a bitch. And again, more Tories were at it - Piers Merchant, anyone? I think Campbell is a bit of a misnomer... the Tories started that sort of lark off with Ingram.

As for WMD, hard to disagree, but let's not forget that the Tories supported the war as well.

As for poor economic management, sorry, but no. Brown has continually been proved right on the economy. I would never trust the Tories with the economy again. They'd rule out Euro entry under all circumstances, even if it meant significant boost to the UK economy... they're so obsessed with Europe and ''foreign folk'' they'll prioritise xenophobia above a decent economy.

The Tories won't get in until Osbourne and Cameron are running the party. Not too long now, as they're both slowly getting promoted through the ranks.

People who vote for the Tories seriously don't know what they're getting themselves into. Whilst I work for a Labour MP, a good friend of mine is currently working with a Tory MP - a pretty well known one - and got taken to his local Conservative association... believe you me, from the stories I have heard, you do not want people like that running this country.

On other forums civil service staff say they have seen documents which prove the true UK unemployment figure is 7 million people. The Government are using devious means to prevent this important fact becoming public knowledge. The murder of Doctor David Kelly was part of The Governments evil plan.
P.S Please visit http://www.radiocaroline.co.uk and http://www.conservatives.com .

Obviously a scouser.

*ducks*

I hope the figures in the Poll of this Thread reflects the view of the General Public, as I will be voting Conservative at the next General Election.

Yes granted Labour have kept the Economy stable, but that's the only good thing I can think of, frankly by Labour I feel rather betrayed, mainly because of Iraq, 2 years on and now bleeding WMD's, many people dead. Also feel betrayed that they said they wouldn't introduce Top-Up fees for University, which TBH has really put me off going. Also Taxes have shot up too.

That's why my vote is going to Mr Howard, he seems to make sense and to be honest it's about time that the UK goes back into Conservative government, granted the Economy screwed up a couple of times, but otherwise I think they did a good job last time. As someone quite rightly said on this Forum some time ago, that it's thanks to the Tories that Labour has enjoyed a growth in economy, thanks to them starting it up again, thanks to an increase in retail, and The National Lottery has done loads too. Though my area of Warrington (South) IIRC is a Tory constituency, it used to be Lib Dems aswell I believe.

I also wouldn't want to imagine the Lib Dems running the country.

nwtv2003 wrote: Also feel betrayed that they said they wouldn't introduce Top-Up fees for University, which TBH has really put me off going. Also Taxes have shot up too.

The widespread misconceptions about so-called top-up fees *really* annoy me.

I do think it's a shame that Labour policy on this has been - to put it politely - incoherent, and badly presented.

HOWEVER I fail to see why people object to the latest reforms to the system which will ELIMINATE up-front fees, and make your CONTRIBUTION (and remember it's just a small CONTRIBUTION towards the cost of university education, which is still largely sustained by general taxation) wholly related to your earnings as a graduate rather than on the income of your parents.

No-one enjoys debt, but if you don't earn anything, then you don't have anything to pay. Simple.

nwtv2003 wrote:I hope the figures in the Poll of this Thread reflects the view of the General Public, as I will be voting Conservative at the next General Election.

Yes granted Labour have kept the Economy stable, but that's the only good thing I can think of, frankly by Labour I feel rather betrayed, mainly because of Iraq, 2 years on and now bleeding WMD's, many people dead. Also feel betrayed that they said they wouldn't introduce Top-Up fees for University, which TBH has really put me off going. Also Taxes have shot up too.

That's why my vote is going to Mr Howard, he seems to make sense and to be honest it's about time that the UK goes back into Conservative government, granted the Economy screwed up a couple of times, but otherwise I think they did a good job last time. As someone quite rightly said on this Forum some time ago, that it's thanks to the Tories that Labour has enjoyed a growth in economy, thanks to them starting it up again, thanks to an increase in retail, and The National Lottery has done loads too. Though my area of Warrington (South) IIRC is a Tory constituency, it used to be Lib Dems aswell I believe.

I also wouldn't want to imagine the Lib Dems running the country.

We have a Tory council in Ilford & "da da" they have put the tax up again, so much for The Tories lowering Taxes

Labour have let me down on the war but The Economy IS stable, which it never was under the Tories

The main issue for the Conservatives is identity. Just where do they sit in British politics? The internal fights that we are lead to believe by Michael Howard no longer exist, are still continuing ala Howard Flight.

This guy had the audacity to speak the true Tory mind and Michael Howard shut him down. Not only removing him from the shadow front bench but baring him from standing at the next election! The irony is that the Howard Flights view of the NHS is a widely held view amongst the electorate and could score Michael Howard some points. However, we are talking about Michael Howard, who continues to appear spineless in the face of true Tory sentiment.

To be honest, with all respect to your average Sun/Mirror reader, I think most people will hear the words "spending cuts" and "NHS" in the same sentence and think "that's bad".

The idea that removing money from the NHS - getting rid of many of the managerial structures in place, etc - could be justified isn't the headline, it's just that plain and simple they will give less money to the NHS, which they are not denying.

It's also worth remembering that there are a hell of a lot of people out there who work for a NHS in the sort of jobs that the Tories want to cut - middle class ABC1s who live all over the country... the Tories typical voters. Nobody is going to vote for a party that wants to perform an en masse cull of public sector workers and lose their job in the process. That's more of a side issue than anything, but you take the point.

cat wrote:To be honest, with all respect to your average Sun/Mirror reader, I think most people will hear the words "spending cuts" and "NHS" in the same sentence and think "that's bad".

The idea that removing money from the NHS - getting rid of many of the managerial structures in place, etc - could be justified isn't the headline, it's just that plain and simple they will give less money to the NHS, which they are not denying.

It's also worth remembering that there are a hell of a lot of people out there who work for a NHS in the sort of jobs that the Tories want to cut - middle class ABC1s who live all over the country... the Tories typical voters. Nobody is going to vote for a party that wants to perform an en masse cull of public sector workers and lose their job in the process. That's more of a side issue than anything, but you take the point.

I do take your point and I would happen to agree with you more than Howard Flight. However, there are many that would agree with Mr Flight. It would be nice if rather than be a copycat Labour party, the Tory party would distance themselves further so at least there is some contrast. At least then I would feel more polarised to support a new Labour party rather than a copycat Tory party.

cat wrote:I really don't think Tony told the nation that in under a decade he would entirely wipe out murder, child abuse, unemployment and homelessness... perhaps you read the manifesto incorrectly.

Well, no, he didn't. But let's take a look at some of the things he did promise us, taken directly from the 2001 manifesto...

We will now give British people the final say in a referendum on the single currency
Not delivered.

We will now reform the appointments system so that by the end of 2005 every hospital appointment is booked for the convenience of the patient making it easier for patients and their GP to choose the hospital and consultant that best suits their needs.
Will not be delivered anywhere near on time.

We want to help the Post Office keep up with the best in a fast-changing market.
Apparently by allowing hundreds of branches to close.

We will not introduce ‘top-up’ fees and have legislated to prevent them.
So what happened to this legislation when Labour broke their promise?

By 2004, patients will be able to see a GP within 48 hours.
Not fully delivered.

Same day tests and diagnosis will become the norm.
The fastest I've seen an out-patient blood test come back is 48hrs.

We will give every citizen a personal smartcard containing key medical data giving access to their medical records.
Have you got yours?

The Criminal Records Bureau will help stop paedophiles and others who are a danger to children from working with them
Except it didn't work for the Soham girls, did it?

By 2004 we are pledged to reduce teenage pregnancy by 15 per cent.
Complete and utter failure.

Those are just the few that jumped out at me when flicking through the manifesto. You'll probably be able to spot lots more if you download it from the Labour party website (the homepage of which features only one party leader - Michael Howard).

tillyoshea wrote:

cat wrote:I really don't think Tony told the nation that in under a decade he would entirely wipe out murder, child abuse, unemployment and homelessness... perhaps you read the manifesto incorrectly.

Well, no, he didn't. But let's take a look at some of the things he did promise us, taken directly from the 2001 manifesto...

We will now give British people the final say in a referendum on the single currency
Not delivered.

We will now reform the appointments system so that by the end of 2005 every hospital appointment is booked for the convenience of the patient making it easier for patients and their GP to choose the hospital and consultant that best suits their needs.
Will not be delivered anywhere near on time.

We want to help the Post Office keep up with the best in a fast-changing market.
Apparently by allowing hundreds of branches to close.

We will not introduce ‘top-up’ fees and have legislated to prevent them.
So what happened to this legislation when Labour broke their promise?

By 2004, patients will be able to see a GP within 48 hours.
Not fully delivered.

Same day tests and diagnosis will become the norm.
The fastest I've seen an out-patient blood test come back is 48hrs.

We will give every citizen a personal smartcard containing key medical data giving access to their medical records.
Have you got yours?

The Criminal Records Bureau will help stop paedophiles and others who are a danger to children from working with them
Except it didn't work for the Soham girls, did it?

By 2004 we are pledged to reduce teenage pregnancy by 15 per cent.
Complete and utter failure.

Those are just the few that jumped out at me when flicking through the manifesto. You'll probably be able to spot lots more if you download it from the Labour party website (the homepage of which features only one party leader - Michael Howard).

Well, the Euro is a pretty worthless argument... and I think you are slightly misinterpreting the point of a manifesto; it's not to set a series of targets and a deadline by which they should be met.

The Tories would launch a referendum campaign just so we never ended up with it... this is on principle, not economic management. Sooner or later the British public will wake up to the fact that the Euro shouldn't be and isn't about principles and defending the country's heritage, it's about securing the economy and better trade relations. The Tories would put principle before the economy... dangerous game to play.

I also think blaming the Labour party for the events in Soham is seriously dodgy territory, and you would be wise to avoid going there.

Hospital waiting times are down - my mother is a Dr, and all experience I've had with my own GP has told me that the waiting lists have gone down. 6 months is not good, no, but it's better than the 9 months I would've had to wait 9 years ago.

The GP in 48 hours issue is interesting. Plenty of surgeries are hostile to reforming their waiting list concept. A large number now perform 'on the day' appointment systems, where you go in/phone that morning and see someone that day, rather than book in advance. Much more sensible, and is being extended across the country as more surgeries wake up.

The medical records system is currently undergoing a massive - and, yes, very expensive and time consuming reform process. As I am sure you well know, NHS trusts across the country are in the process of digitizing their records, but there are a hell of a lot of them and it will probably take another 8 years or so before it's done. That's not through bad management, it's just a very time-consuming process. When it's done, and as the manifesto says it's been embarked upon, you'll be damn glad they did it. To expect the entire NHS records system to be on computer in the space of four years - which is not what the manifesto says - is stupid, and if you voted for them on that basis I'd advise you to stay away from politics for good.