So are Labour on their way out?

[Gavin Scott]

But to be fair you probably don't think the NHS is worthy either, do you?

[barcode]

I don't know the details of this specific plan, but I'm a bit bemused as to why taxpayers' money needs to be used to build houses.

Because some daft person sold all off alot of the public housing stock back in the 80's, whether or not that was good is neither here nor there. but there should have replaced the stock there sold off.

in UK There are still a high amount of people unable to get on the housing market, and the ques for council house is getting beyond a joke ( some ppl are waiting 4-5 years)


plus UK been doing this for about 100 years now

[James H]

Because some daft person sold all off alot of the public housing stock back in the 80's, whether or not that was good is neither here nor there. but there should have replaced the stock there sold off.

Remind me whose economic disaster caused that "daft" person to make these decisions?

[Gavin Scott]

Because some daft person sold all off alot of the public housing stock back in the 80's, whether or not that was good is neither here nor there. but there should have replaced the stock there sold off.

Remind me whose economic disaster caused that "daft" person to make these decisions?

So you think its a good thing to sell your council housing stock and not replace it?

[Mr Q]

But to be fair you probably don't think the NHS is worthy either, do you?

I didn't say that housing affordability issues should be ignored. I questioned whether the government building houses was the best way to address it. Obviously it's a problem that affects low income earners (after all, if you can't afford to put a roof over your head, I think it's safe to say you probably have a low income). Governments address equity issues like that through the tax-transfer system - that is, we provide welfare payments to people. The government doesn't need to be landlords - they can supplement people's earnings by way of welfare payments.

But, for what it's worth, I happen to think the NHS is a joke. And the fact that governments always come to power promising to "fix" the NHS seems to support that view. The NHS is a black hole which sucks in huge amounts of money, and still leaves some people waiting months for surgery. Indeed, I reasonably expect it's one area a future government will have to make cuts to. (But let me also state, just to head off any criticism, that I am not impressed by the current US approach to healthcare in the absence of a public provider.)

So you think its a good thing to sell your council housing stock and not replace it?

I know you were asking James H, but I'll throw in my two pence worth -- personally, yes.

[Gavin Scott]

But to be fair you probably don't think the NHS is worthy either, do you?

I didn't say that housing affordability issues should be ignored. I questioned whether the government building houses was the best way to address it. Obviously it's a problem that affects low income earners (after all, if you can't afford to put a roof over your head, I think it's safe to say you probably have a low income). Governments address equity issues like that through the tax-transfer system - that is, we provide welfare payments to people. The government doesn't need to be landlords - they can supplement people's earnings by way of welfare payments.

Government owned properties are rent-controlled. Paying housing benefits to pay off private landlords is less value for money, as private landlords charge more.

But, for what it's worth, I happen to think the NHS is a joke. And the fact that governments always come to power promising to "fix" the NHS seems to support that view. The NHS is a black hole which sucks in huge amounts of money, and still leaves some people waiting months for surgery. Indeed, I reasonably expect it's one area a future government will have to make cuts to. (But let me also state, just to head off any criticism, that I am not impressed by the current US approach to healthcare in the absence of a public provider.)

Seriously, what the fuck would you know about the NHS from the other side of the world?

The NHS is something I'm very proud of. The quality of service is absolutely fantastic. I dread to think what your alternative would be.

I really, really don't want to live in your "ideal" capitalist society Mr Q, because it sounds to me like you're a very small step from sterilising the poor and euthanising the disabled.

Not everything should be measured with a cost/benefit analysis.

A civilised society should protect those who can't protect themselves.

[Jovis]

I really, really don't want to live in your "ideal" capitalist society Mr Q, because it sounds to me like you're a very small step from sterilising the poor and euthanising the disabled.

Not everything should be measured with a cost/benefit analysis.

Indeed.

[Mr Q]

I really, really don't want to live in your "ideal" capitalist society Mr Q, because it sounds to me like you're a very small step from sterilising the poor and euthanising the disabled.

You know what Gavin - it's fine if you want to snap at me rather than engage in a discussion of the issues. But to liken my point of view to advocating Nazi-style eugenics is deeply offensive. If that's the sort of attitude you want to take, I'm not really sure I care to be a member of this site.

[Jovis]

Let me just say I didn't see that part ('because it sounds to me like you're a very small step from sterilising the poor and euthanising the disabled.') in particular - and don't agree with it.

[James H]

Politics can often be a touchy subject but we should try and discuss it in an adult and mature way - just as I was reprimanded by Gavin for swearing at barcode, we should probably try and calm down a little. It would be a shame to lose a good contributor to the place in Mr Q but, at the same time, surely you must understand that just as Gavin mentioned earlier that I wasn't around to take much notice of politics pre-1997, your experience of the NHS is slightly tainted by headlines from thousands of miles away?

My grandmother has been treated in hospital several times, and I've seen several nurses and doctors in various units, and they've always been superb for me and my family. Waiting lists are inevitable for anything - I had to wait a year and a half to see a psychiatrist once, which I'll admit is unacceptable - but the service at the end is excellent.

A little more decorum, now, lads and lasses!

[Gavin Scott]

I really, really don't want to live in your "ideal" capitalist society Mr Q, because it sounds to me like you're a very small step from sterilising the poor and euthanising the disabled.

You know what Gavin - it's fine if you want to snap at me rather than engage in a discussion of the issues. But to liken my point of view to advocating Nazi-style eugenics is deeply offensive. If that's the sort of attitude you want to take, I'm not really sure I care to be a member of this site.

Well I'm sorry if that comment offended you Mr Q, but I was similarly offended to hear you dismiss the NHS as a "joke". If it seems that way to you then either you're hearing a very slanted view in the cross-world media, or you are basically saying that healthcare should only be there if you have the means to pay for it.

From that I drew a line further which may have misrepresented your view, so I withdraw it.

What I don't understand in your view is where you think a society comes in to play. Is it every man for himself as far as you're concerned?