TV Live Forum Watch News and Information Board

Martin Phillp
Posts: 1182
Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 01.28

The main positive I have from having the sub-forum was that I could easily read the other normal threads without having to read rebrand posts, but it was a slog to read the sub-forum posts this morning.
TVF's London Lite.
Joe
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed 31 Mar, 2021 20.15

Steve wrote: Wed 20 Oct, 2021 14.30
Joe wrote: Wed 20 Oct, 2021 07.27 But to be fair, it wasn’t always going to be a gradual change. At first, some reported a one-hit effort, and that’s moved further from being the reality as time has gone on.
It *was* always going to be a gradual change. The one-hit effort idea came from people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 657 :-)
Yes, I totally agree. I just mean that it was certainly a fair impression to get from reading the discussion.
User avatar
rob
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sat 06 Sep, 2003 12.01
Location: Overton, Hampshire
Contact:

bilky asko wrote: Wed 20 Oct, 2021 09.47 It feels like some of the mods are hardly on the forum at all, though the problem with the "Moderator Message" box is that you're never sure who's actually delivered such a message.
From today, I've asked the mods to attach their name to any new warnings that are issued.
DTV
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon 12 Mar, 2012 19.27

Only six of the last twelve threads in The Gallery are based around the two-day old BBC rebrand, it's not what it used to be! Although at least there will be a break before the inevitable deluge of 'bringing consistency back to BBC branding' designs.
T0M
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat 12 Nov, 2016 11.06

Quite some years ago there was a good, pretty high standard of work on the Gallery on TVF.

Nowadays, I feel horrible for saying this - but the Gallery is now where free trials of Powerpoint come to die. I remember being young (too young to really be going on there) and naive and posting some god awful mocks on there - and while there was some unnecessarily harsh comments thrown my way from people much older than me that should’ve known better, I got the gist rather quickly that my stuff wasn’t going to be their cup of tea until I got better at it. Now there’s mocks at that same sort of skill level that I was at way back then, and they get 3 stars… Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the fact that there’s kids now pursuing the same passion I had back then (and still do! I now work for an agency), but it really does feel like The Gallery is a holiday camp for kids now.

I feel like an old person yelling at kids to get off their lawn, but I really do miss when there was some really fucking good design work on there.
DTV
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon 12 Mar, 2012 19.27

T0M wrote: Fri 22 Oct, 2021 20.24 Nowadays, I feel horrible for saying this - but the Gallery is now where free trials of Powerpoint come to die. I remember being young (too young to really be going on there) and naive and posting some god awful mocks on there - and while there was some unnecessarily harsh comments thrown my way from people much older than me that should’ve known better, I got the gist rather quickly that my stuff wasn’t going to be their cup of tea until I got better at it. Now there’s mocks at that same sort of skill level that I was at way back then, and they get 3 stars… Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the fact that there’s kids now pursuing the same passion I had back then (and still do! I now work for an agency), but it really does feel like The Gallery is a holiday camp for kids now.
I think one of the key problems with the Gallery is that it has become increasingly 'ghettoised' in relation to the rest of the forum - many of the more experienced members simply avoid the place, leading to it being largely the preserve of younger members - who, despite their enthusiasm, are often not particularly skilled when making mocks and have a rather low set of standards when judging others. Of course, we were all young once and my early mocks were utterly terrible - but the Gallery did help me improve and I do hope that my more recent output is of a fairly high quality. Many of the current mockers will get better over time and us suffering through their crappy PowerPoint designs is part of that. But I do wish they would be more original - I've seen enough 'consistent BBC logo packages' and 'GMB graphics overhauls' for a lifetime. Variety is as in short supply as quality.

Though improvement, at least for me, largely stemmed from very pointed criticisms. And one of the side effects of experienced members avoiding the place is that those criticisms are no longer made. The replies that are made are usually kids declaring everything amazing/cool or somebody merely remarking they don't like it. Once upon a time, failing to adhere to safe zones would promptly lead to a stern warning with a link to the guide to mocking and a poor design would result in a very detailed list of reasons why it sucked.

I also feel that the Gallery on TVLF does suffer from the lack of preview images. While I understand that may not be technically possible with the new forum, the preview images on TVF - especially on the front page - really allowed good mockers to catch people's eye with an outstanding design and draw you in. While the star ratings can be a good guide, you basically now have to stumble across a good design.
PATV Scunthorpe
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 20.17

I would agree with most of the points made, like T0M, I do think there has been a rise in the overrating of threads, people may say quality over quantity, but I think the two work hand in hand, it should look good, but there should be some substance behind it, more than just one example that then gets rated 4 or 5 stars by some members. That's why I post smaller and unfinished stuff in a miscellaneous thread and only open a dedicated thread once I feel there is enough to justify one.

I also agree and can relate with DTV, the early stuff I posted on TV Forum was of a poorer quality compared to what I post now, but getting that feedback definitely helped with my personal progression. But now that process almost feels stunted for others, there's still some constructive criticism, but most comments are either telling someone who much they like a mock, or asking them to apply it to something else. Though I'll admit I could maybe do more to engage with other threads myself and I do think David helps with being the moderator, giving advice that the poster can use.

And while I understand the context in which you're both saying it, I would have to jump in defence of PowerPoint, I still use it for my mocks and previously use to animate everything in it as well, but I do think it is something that if you continuing learning how to use as you progress, making optimal use of all the features to achieve an outcome, then you get a better result. If members are using the basic features, then I accept that's when it doesn't look as good.
DTV
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon 12 Mar, 2012 19.27

PATV Scunthorpe wrote: Sat 23 Oct, 2021 12.10 And while I understand the context in which you're both saying it, I would have to jump in defence of PowerPoint, I still use it for my mocks and previously use to animate everything in it as well, but I do think it is something that if you continuing learning how to use as you progress, making optimal use of all the features to achieve an outcome, then you get a better result. If members are using the basic features, then I accept that's when it doesn't look as good.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to blanket disparage PowerPoint - like all software it can be used very well if you put the time and effort into learning how to use it properly. The problem is that PowerPoint, in particular, tends to be the first resort of new mockers who haven't put that time and effort in - and it often shows.

I know that some knock recreations, but I think that starting with recreating designs you like is a key piece of advice I would always give to new mockers. It is very handy for learning how to use any piece of software (as well as the limitations of it) and you simply won't be able to create good original designs if you don't have the technical skill to recreate existing works to a high standard. It also provides a better quality benchmark for self-evaluation.

The points about 'grade inflation' are interesting. There are certainly some mocks or types of mocks that get overrated and increasingly so, but it's not entirely consistent. Within my 'field' - set designs - there has been a notable increase in quality and rating 'deflation' since I joined. My early recreations were only vaguely accurate, used low-polygon circles and were unrendered - yet some got three or even four stars. Wholly undeserved. But thanks to a sort of arms race between about half-a-dozen of us around 2012/13, the benchmark for a good SketchUp mock quickly increased and now those early attempts would be lucky to get two stars. The example of better designers really forced me to up my game and I do wonder if the comparative shortage of good designs today does not force the younger members to up theirs?
bilky asko
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48

Stuart on Television Live Forum wrote:
Blubatt on Television Live Forum wrote:Ugh. Just saw that clip of John Bishop. It worked with Bradley Walsh, who I think was the best character in this run of the show, but John Bishop is such a bad actor.
He certainly is.

I was dragged up in Manchester, so the sound of a Liverpudlian accent makes my skin crawl. I won't be able to watch the next series. :?
Good to see the Doctor Who thread is going as well as one would expect...
Image
Philip
Posts: 1057
Joined: Fri 22 Feb, 2008 21.23
Location: Merseyside
Contact:

Thought that too. Charming comment.

Because Manchester is so underrepresented on television, isn’t it?
Image
T0M
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat 12 Nov, 2016 11.06

I’m a scouser - and if they’re that oblivious and thoughtless to think that’s a perfectly normal thing to be saying publicly about accents and about the way people talk… then I dread to think about what we don’t hear. Really weird behaviour.
Please Respond