Coronavirus - Strange times

gottago
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

cdd wrote: Mon 21 Dec, 2020 18.53
If the rules are relaxed somewhat the cases will go up and the hospital admissions increase. That's what we saw this year in the UK and we had to go into a second lockdown because of it. If we don't go into additional lockdowns the NHS reaches breaking point. So where do those patients go? Yes Nightingale Hospitals are on standby but they must be staffed by doctors and nurses from the existing hospitals so all you're getting is extra beds and even more stretched treatment.
I agree that preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed - and forced to prioritise who to treat - is important. Your view however appears to be that it is infinitely important.

Accordingly your view appears to be that any measure that can be taken to prevent that outcome, no matter how dramatic, must be taken. Even if it means people losing businesses they’ve spent their lives building, millions becoming unemployed, poverty increasing, education of young people being disrupted, people becoming less healthy through sitting on the sofa, large increases in young suicides, the loss of heretofore unquestionable civil freedoms and a massive deficit that will constrain future spending and degrade the quality of future public services. And it doesn’t matter how bad any of these problems become, as long as we don’t overwhelm the NHS right now. Do I understand your position correctly?
Well... yeah. As agreed by many governments across the world.

Much of these problems, or equivalent problems, are going to happen lockdown or not. A functioning economy needs a functioning health service, a crippled NHS would be extremely damaging for the economy. Millions going without treatments or diagnoses for other illnesses would cost the NHS billions for years to come. The additional impact of staff shortages and illnesses on business would be huge.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that lockdowns ultimately have less of an impact on the medium and long-term economic situation than not locking down. Interestingly Sweden's economy has declined as much as the other Nordic countries which did impose lockdowns and had far fewer deaths. This is worth a read, social distancing also has a huge impact on the economy, the quicker lockdowns can ease the spread ahead of the vaccine being rolled out on mass, the quicker social distancing can end. Having no lockdowns with social distancing means the virus spreads more which slows the mass immunity from the vaccine down which has more of an impact on the economy:

https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Publi ... h/ch2.ashx

I don't deny that there are awful and lasting consequences of lockdowns but there are just as many from not locking down. At least this way more lives can be saved.
cwathen
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

gottago wrote:Well... yeah. As agreed by many governments across the world.
I think in all honesty the weakest argument to any of this is 'we are only doing what everyone else is doing'. You only need to witness the events of the previous few days to see that governments around the world simply follow each other around like sheep, each one having no real clue what they're doing and just wanting to be seen to do what was the in thing at the time and hoping it's going to protect them in the future once the enquiries start rolling in (assuming we have enough democracy left once it is over for any meaningful enquiries to take place). As quickly as blockades of the UK snowballed once the first few countries introduced them, so will they disappear once a few countries start to relax theirs.

If this doesn't convince you that Covid has now moved from an emergency which needed to be managed with reasonable limitations as to what was necessary and viable into a subject of absolute paranoia where I honestly believe governments do not care what they do as long as they get the cases down, I don't know what will.
JAS84
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri 12 Aug, 2011 10.23
Location: Hull, UK

I get the feeling that the blockades may actually be Brexit related, and they're just using COVID as an excuse. The timing seems very suspicious, one week before we end up leaving with No Deal.
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dosxuk
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu 07 Feb, 2008 21.37
Location: Sheffield

JAS84 wrote: Wed 23 Dec, 2020 14.47 I get the feeling that the blockades may actually be Brexit related, and they're just using COVID as an excuse. The timing seems very suspicious, one week before we end up leaving with No Deal.
Yeah, I'm sure India is blocking travel from the UK because of brexit.
gottago
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

I've got a feeling we'll be seeing articles listing unusual locations for vaccination centres in the same way you get ones for unusual polling stations. The former IKEA click and collect in Westfield Stratford has mysteriously had its window covered in a frosted glass style vinyl and peaking through the gaps it was full of the same sort of chairs, desks and screens that were featured in a Sky News report today from the Excel's vaccine centre.

Looking forward to seeing centres pop up in rural pubs, hair salons, windmills and the like.
Jonwo
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 02.05

gottago wrote: Sun 10 Jan, 2021 16.26 I've got a feeling we'll be seeing articles listing unusual locations for vaccination centres in the same way you get ones for unusual polling stations. The former IKEA click and collect in Westfield Stratford has mysteriously had its window covered in a frosted glass style vinyl and peaking through the gaps it was full of the same sort of chairs, desks and screens that were featured in a Sky News report today from the Excel's vaccine centre.

Looking forward to seeing centres pop up in rural pubs, hair salons, windmills and the like.
That's regional news sorted for their fill of weird stories.
thegeek
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 12.35

gottago wrote: Sun 10 Jan, 2021 16.26 The former IKEA click and collect in Westfield Stratford has mysteriously had its window covered in a frosted glass style vinyl and peaking through the gaps it was full of the same sort of chairs, desks and screens that were featured in a Sky News report today from the Excel's vaccine centre.

Looking forward to seeing centres pop up in rural pubs, hair salons, windmills and the like.
Good sleuthing - I read about that site in this article the other day, which confirms your suspicion.

Brewdog were offering their bars to NHS Scotland as sites for vaccination centres the other day (I think along with their staff), though it seems vacant retail sites are more likely venues.

My current mood on Covid is that I feel like I've had too many lucky escapes lately and it's almost inevitable that I'll catch it this month, but the vaccine rollout does seem to be gathering pace.
all new Phil
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

I understand that some discussions have been had with cinema chains, who have lots of space, usually decent parking and are obviously currently closed.
Thought this was a nice forum, clearly not.
Jonwo
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 02.05

all new Phil wrote: Sun 10 Jan, 2021 19.09 I understand that some discussions have been had with cinema chains, who have lots of space, usually decent parking and are obviously currently closed.
I wonder if somewhere like The O2 could work as a vaccination centre?
gottago
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

Jonwo wrote: Sun 10 Jan, 2021 19.27
all new Phil wrote: Sun 10 Jan, 2021 19.09 I understand that some discussions have been had with cinema chains, who have lots of space, usually decent parking and are obviously currently closed.
I wonder if somewhere like The O2 could work as a vaccination centre?
The Excel centre is just over the water from The O2 and that's being used as one of the mass vaccination centres.
thegeek
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 12.35

all new Phil wrote: Sun 10 Jan, 2021 19.09 I understand that some discussions have been had with cinema chains, who have lots of space, usually decent parking and are obviously currently closed.
some cinemas in Scotland are being used for jury trials.
gottago wrote: Sun 10 Jan, 2021 20.00The Excel centre is just over the water from The O2 and that's being used as one of the mass vaccination centres.
and the Dangleway is a nice safe socially distanced way to get people across the river to it.
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