Brexit

What's next?

Theresa May's Deal
8
18%
No deal
12
27%
People's vote
22
49%
Something else (pls specify)
3
7%
 
Total votes: 45
james2001
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 23.10

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.45

Theres going to be a hell of a lot more than 16 jobs lost as a result of brexit, which I'm sure you know. I'm sure you're alright, jack, though. As long as you've still got your job and your blue passport, who cares about other people, eh? Maybe you need to remember that real people are being affected by this, and affected badly, and unsympathetically sneering about it doesn't make you look good.
Alexia
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.58

james2001 wrote:
Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.34
My sister and 15 of her colleagues just lost their jobs today as a result of brexit and her employer losing their EU funding. So that should help tell you what I think about this.
My sister in law has moved home to Sweden prematurely and my brother in law now faces a race against time to get a job out there so he can join her and spend the rest of her life with her. That indicates where I stand.

Also I don't want to queue in the non-EU queues at Arlanda airport when I visit them.
james2001
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 23.10

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.08

Alexia wrote:
Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.58
james2001 wrote:
Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.34
My sister and 15 of her colleagues just lost their jobs today as a result of brexit and her employer losing their EU funding. So that should help tell you what I think about this.
My sister in law has moved home to Sweden prematurely and my brother in law now faces a race against time to get a job out there so he can join her and spend the rest of her life with her. That indicates where I stand.

Also I don't want to queue in the non-EU queues at Arlanda airport when I visit them.
Exactly. Is "sovreignety" or "taking back control" worth all these people whose livelihoods are going to be badly affected? However much brexiteers gripe about the EU, I doubt many of them would find their jobs or residency would have been at risk if it had been a vote to remain. It's not funny or something to sneerily dismiss, even if you think it's "only" 16 people or whatever.
barcode
Posts: 1472
Joined: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 19.36

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.20

The people that voted out, don't see any of that nor do there care. To them it's just elite people swamming around the EU, and are getting all the benefits. To the leave people this is just a pipe dream which will never happen to them. The leave people are not seeing any real benefits to being in the EU.

Maybe if we started to tackle the issues why people feel left behide instead of insults and saying their stupid we might actually move forward, Mind you the USA is facing the same troubles.

It's a race to the bottom now.....
Alexia
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.24

It's not even about any of the arguments any more. They've all been proven to be bunk. We already have sovereignty, we have border control, we could even have had blue passports if we wanted....we had a say in EU law and can change it to our advantage if we want. The EU quotas are saving the fishing industry in this country from dying an even more rapid death than it already is. EU immigrants are not taking jobs in front of UK nationals and are not sponging off the state; rather they provide a net benefit to this country financially and socially. We are not under any pressure to join the Euro. All our public services rely on migrant labour to an extent and we are not sending £350m a week to the EU without getting some or most of it back. The EU invests in the areas the UK govt neglects and for all this we get the ability to piss off to Spain or Greece on holiday whenever we want and take our NHS health cover with us. All the little Englanders who are afraid of an EU-wide army should realise that cross-border co-operation has been going on for decades, not least of all in the aviation industry, and that future wars won't be waged by the sort of armies we seem intent on relying on in this country. Certainly all public appetite for troop warfare is at an all time low.

What it *is* about now is that there is a tranche of Brexiteers who cannot stand the fact that they were lied to, duped, led on, and are in the wrong tribe, on the wrong team, on the wrong side of history, and are desperately trying to absolve themselves of any blame even if it means plunging this country into the 1950s.

It's sick.
Alexia
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.26

barcode wrote:
Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.20
The people that voted out, don't see any of that nor do there care. To them it's just elite people swamming around the EU, and are getting all the benefits. To the leave people this is just a pipe dream which will never happen to them. The leave people are not seeing any real benefits to being in the EU.

More like the "working class" in this country who have never left their home town are envious and resentful of the poor buggers with too many Zs in their name who actually got up off their arses and left their homes and countries to move somewhere else, learn a foreign language, set up a life for themselves and prospered by doing something as relatively simple as carpentry, plumbing, electricals or building.
barcode
Posts: 1472
Joined: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 19.36

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.29

See there the problem... Blame the voters not the causes or issues, and you wonder why there is so much blood over this topic...

FYI every one is given a second language to do fo over 30 years nows.. Mind you maybe it would help if their let the kids decide second one should be instead of telling the kids what to learn..
james2001
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 23.10

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.36

Alexia wrote:
Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.24
It's not even about any of the arguments any more. They've all been proven to be bunk. We already have sovereignty, we have border control, we could even have had blue passports if we wanted....we had a say in EU law and can change it to our advantage if we want. The EU quotas are saving the fishing industry in this country from dying an even more rapid death than it already is. EU immigrants are not taking jobs in front of UK nationals and are not sponging off the state; rather they provide a net benefit to this country financially and socially. We are not under any pressure to join the Euro. All our public services rely on migrant labour to an extent and we are not sending £350m a week to the EU without getting some or most of it back. The EU invests in the areas the UK govt neglects and for all this we get the ability to piss off to Spain or Greece on holiday whenever we want and take our NHS health cover with us. All the little Englanders who are afraid of an EU-wide army should realise that cross-border co-operation has been going on for decades, not least of all in the aviation industry, and that future wars won't be waged by the sort of armies we seem intent on relying on in this country. Certainly all public appetite for troop warfare is at an all time low.

What it *is* about now is that there is a tranche of Brexiteers who cannot stand the fact that they were lied to, duped, led on, and are in the wrong tribe, on the wrong team, on the wrong side of history, and are desperately trying to absolve themselves of any blame even if it means plunging this country into the 1950s.

It's sick.
I really don't think I could put it any better!
all new Phil
Posts: 1540
Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.37

james2001 wrote:
Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.45
Theres going to be a hell of a lot more than 16 jobs lost as a result of brexit, which I'm sure you know. I'm sure you're alright, jack, though. As long as you've still got your job and your blue passport, who cares about other people, eh? Maybe you need to remember that real people are being affected by this, and affected badly, and unsympathetically sneering about it doesn't make you look good.
Of course I understand that real people are affected by this. I was merely pushing the buttons that I know from previous comments of yours will provoke a reaction and, right on cue, there you are with the “alright jack”, “blue passports” and accusations of sneering. Your views on brexiteers far predate your sisters very unfortunate circumstances.

What you perfectly demonstrate is that there is such a divide between both sides of this, and an unwillingness from so many to refer to those with opposing views to their own without being disrespectful.
*ass
woah
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12.39
Location: Sheffield

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.39

A little off-topic - but I do find it depressing the way that the public feels increasingly divided, not just about Brexit but politics in general.

For example - we have increasing numbers of extremist idiots from either side of an argument on social media, who pounce on the slightest news and use it to support their agenda by spouting heavily biased, often inaccurate nonsense. The more this happens the more it's considered "acceptable" and I find people tend to be much more vocal and open about these kinds of extreme, unsubstantiated views than they ever have been.

Certain parts of the media make this worse by writing one-sided, biased articles missing key pieces of detail to fan the flames and get the clicks they need - and so it spreads further. Certain politicians know how to get the support from these extremist types and so they get increasingly more attention through that as well.

I personally find it very hard to work out the facts and realities among the noise of debates, campaigning, biased media, and social media.

And to me, this is what happened with Brexit - we were asked to vote on whether we should leave the EU or not, but the campaign groups told us many possibilities that were never a guaranteed result of leaving the EU. Brexit meant so many different things to different people (immigration, fisheries, taking back control of our laws for example) but that is not what we voted for - we voted to leave, not on what "leaving" would ultimately mean.

The vote was far too simplistic - the ultimate end goal of leaving the EU should have been crystal clear from the outset, and if that turned out not to be possible another vote should have been carried out until we reached terms that the public had a majority support for. I don't think a people's vote is practical now - and would probably end in protests or riots - but I do thing the Brexit campaigning was shameful and misleading, and you do have to wonder how many people would vote to remain, or for a Brexit on entirely different terms, having seen what has happened over the last 2 years.

Finally - it feels impossible to have a reasoned debate between people on both sides of the Brexit debate without creating an argument - not even here on Metropol. I find it a real shame but I think it is the reality when we have such a huge divide.
all new Phil
Posts: 1540
Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.42

woah wrote:
Wed 21 Nov, 2018 23.39
A little off-topic - but I do find it depressing the way that the public feels increasingly divided, not just about Brexit but politics in general.

For example - we have increasing numbers of extremist idiots from either side of an argument on social media, who pounce on the slightest news and use it to support their agenda by spouting heavily biased, often inaccurate nonsense. The more this happens the more it's considered "acceptable" and I find people tend to be much more vocal and open about these kinds of extreme, unsubstantiated views than they ever have been.

Certain parts of the media make this worse by writing one-sided, biased articles missing key pieces of detail to fan the flames and get the clicks they need - and so it spreads further. Certain politicians know how to get the support from these extremist types and so they get increasingly more attention through that as well.

I personally find it very hard to work out the facts and realities among the noise of debates, campaigning, biased media, and social media.

And to me, this is what happened with Brexit - we were asked to vote on whether we should leave the EU or not, but the campaign groups told us many possibilities that were never a guaranteed result of leaving the EU. Brexit meant so many different things to different people (immigration, fisheries, taking back control of our laws for example) but that is not what we voted for - we voted to leave, not on what "leaving" would ultimately mean.

The vote was far too simplistic - the ultimate end goal of leaving the EU should have been crystal clear from the outset, and if that turned out not to be possible another vote should have been carried out until we reached terms that the public had a majority support for. I don't think a people's vote is practical now - and would probably end in protests or riots - but I do thing the Brexit campaigning was shameful and misleading, and you do have to wonder how many people would vote to remain, or for a Brexit on entirely different terms, having seen what has happened over the last 2 years.

Finally - it feels impossible to have a reasoned debate between people on both sides of the Brexit debate without creating an argument - not even here on Metropol. I find it a real shame but I think it is the reality when we have such a huge divide.
Nail on the head. Great post.
*ass
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