Brexit

What's next?

Theresa May's Deal
8
18%
No deal
12
27%
People's vote
22
49%
Something else (pls specify)
3
7%
 
Total votes: 45
User avatar
dosxuk
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu 07 Feb, 2008 21.37
Location: Sheffield

Fri 22 Mar, 2019 15.34

barcode wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 10.26
Then your a very foolish person.. and most leave people don't care for that march.
That's pretty obvious, there's only about 50 of them left.
Alexia
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

Fri 22 Mar, 2019 18.04

barcode wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 10.26
Then your a very foolish person.. and most leave people don't care for that march.
There will be 1 million people on the streets of London tomorrow demanding a PV or revocation. Meanwhile there's 50 geriatrics and 50 dead bodies on the A1.
barcode
Posts: 1472
Joined: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 19.36

Fri 22 Mar, 2019 20.27

Wow 1 million people, still 1million who still will not listen to the other side concerns. You could fix this whole issues right now if people would stop being bigots ( boths side since there is no tolerance ) and everyone started understand everyone concerns, were going to continue with this magic roundabout.

That has always been the underlying problem about debate. As soon as Remain lost, there just slagged Leave voters, some of the MPS have been even worse.

Resolve people underlying problems and brexit will be fixed, but it won't happen because there is no too much hatred...
User avatar
dosxuk
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu 07 Feb, 2008 21.37
Location: Sheffield

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 01.15

Maybe if our leadership had shown any sign of compromise or consensus gathering, there would have been a chance of the two sides merging. Instead we're now at the end of a 1000 day process of refusing to compromise or confirm which direction things should move. How anyone can be surprised that the different groups have moved apart is beyond me.

It's been pointed out quite a bit in the last few days (why it's taken so long is a mystery to me) that while leave may have had the biggest vote in history, due to the fragmentation of that vote, between no-deal f*** the EU and socialist wonderland bring on the red tape, remain actually holds the biggest democratic mandate in UK history. If anyone can see a way forward where more than 48% of the country are happy, I'm all ears.
bilky asko
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 07.34

dosxuk wrote:
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 01.15
Maybe if our leadership had shown any sign of compromise or consensus gathering, there would have been a chance of the two sides merging. Instead we're now at the end of a 1000 day process of refusing to compromise or confirm which direction things should move. How anyone can be surprised that the different groups have moved apart is beyond me.

It's been pointed out quite a bit in the last few days (why it's taken so long is a mystery to me) that while leave may have had the biggest vote in history, due to the fragmentation of that vote, between no-deal f*** the EU and socialist wonderland bring on the red tape, remain actually holds the biggest democratic mandate in UK history. If anyone can see a way forward where more than 48% of the country are happy, I'm all ears.
But which remain did they want? Remain under the old rules, remain under David Cameron's renegotiation, remain and push for reform, remain and drop the opt-outs, remain and integrate further to allow projects like the EU Army to come to fruition...

EDIT: The largest democratic mandate (presumably meaning the largest number of voters picking an option) bit isn't true, as while the Leave vote exceeded the 1975 EEC Yes vote, Remain did not.
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cwathen
Posts: 1117
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 09.08

It's been pointed out quite a bit in the last few days (why it's taken so long is a mystery to me) that while leave may have had the biggest vote in history, due to the fragmentation of that vote, between no-deal f*** the EU and socialist wonderland bring on the red tape, remain actually holds the biggest democratic mandate in UK history. If anyone can see a way forward where more than 48% of the country are happy, I'm all ears.
I would suggest that only a minority of the country have particularly strong views on Europe either way. The turnout at the referendum was impressive, but 72% still means over a quarter of those registered to vote didn't bother. And of the 72% that have enough of a view to vote, there is no evidence that a majority of them care enough to continue fighting for their preferred outcome after the result. I would suggest the majority have gone back to not seeing their lives defined by membership or not of the EU just as they had before (and in my mind this is only further evidence of why a referendum wasn't necessary in the first place).

Yes remain does have more people willing to take to the streets for it than leave does, but you can't overturn democratically reached decisions based on how many hardliners can be brought out after the fact. Right now the biggest remain movement isn't the 1 million people going on a march for a 2nd referendum, it's the 3 million people who believe the 2nd referendum should be dispensed with and Article 50 should just be revoked outright. Should we now do that?

And on the '48% of the country are happy', I'm not sure they are. Just as leave is fragmented, so is remain. I voted remain not because I'm pro-EU but because I didn't believe the EU was quite the problem that it is dressed up to be by Farage and his followers, and I didn't feel there was enough information available on what would happen next to contemplate voting to leave. I am also ardently against trying to overturn the result, as I feel that whatever arguments you want to level at it (many of which I sympathise with) we did nevertheless vote to leave under the system that was put in place and overturning this would be entirely undemocratic and wrong. This doesn't put me in the bracket of the sort of remainer that's going on demonstrations or signing petitions at all, despite us voting the same way.

This idea that there are multiple visions of brexit but only one of remain is in my view nothing more than an attempt to split the leave vote - few PV'ers seem to support the idea of a straight rerun, instead they want 'remain', 'leave A', 'leave B' etc - so they can claim a victory with less than half the vote. Personally I would rather remain in an EU demonstrating itself to be capable of reform and which is willing to draw a line on the level of expansion and integration it seeks, but that remain wouldn't be on the table.
Alexia
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 12.21

barcode wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 20.27
Wow 1 million people, still 1million who still will not listen to the other side concerns.
Brexiteers don't have concerns. They have fears, paranoia and ignorance. Their problems aren't caused by the EU, they are caused by Westminster. Without European immigration, our infrastructure would be half the size it is now. We would have a shortage of skilled workers, we would have 2 million less taxpayers in this country.

We are still going to have an immigration "problem" in that now there will be no safeguards against unlimited migration. What do you think France is going to do next time 10,000 refugees arrive at Calais? They'll say "on you go lads" and put them on the Eurostar and we would have no way of sending them back if we are so precluded.

It isn't the EU that is restricting funding to the regions and funnelling it all into London. The EU is there to do the opposite and the idea that the Tories will do a volte face to plug the gaps is laugahable. This funding announced last week by TM is just robbing Peter to pay Paul - its all existing funding jiggled about. None for Scotland, Wales or Cornwall I notice.

If you're concerned that the EU is run by unelected beaurocrats, then take a look at the House of Lords, the Civil Service, your local town hall, the quangos etc - all of those things will still be here after Brexit, if it happens.


And above all of this -- Brexiteers don't have problems. Their lives aren't remotely affected by the EU's machinations. They just want to make life worse for the rest of us. I hate every single one of the 17.4million and one day you will get your comeuppance.
bilky asko
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 13.29

Alexia wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 18.04
barcode wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 10.26
Then your a very foolish person.. and most leave people don't care for that march.
There will be 1 million people on the streets of London tomorrow demanding a PV or revocation. Meanwhile there's 50 geriatrics and 50 dead bodies on the A1.
Current figure: "tens of thousands". I don't even think the organisers' spurious figures would put it at a million.
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barcode
Posts: 1472
Joined: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 19.36

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 14.29

The bigotry is breathtaking, there is no point continuing with you
Alexia wrote:
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 12.21
barcode wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 20.27
Wow 1 million people, still 1million who still will not listen to the other side concerns.
Brexiteers don't have concerns. They have fears, paranoia and ignorance. Their problems aren't caused by the EU, they are caused by Westminster. Without European immigration, our infrastructure would be half the size it is now. We would have a shortage of skilled workers, we would have 2 million less taxpayers in this country.

We are still going to have an immigration "problem" in that now there will be no safeguards against unlimited migration. What do you think France is going to do next time 10,000 refugees arrive at Calais? They'll say "on you go lads" and put them on the Eurostar and we would have no way of sending them back if we are so precluded.

It isn't the EU that is restricting funding to the regions and funnelling it all into London. The EU is there to do the opposite and the idea that the Tories will do a volte face to plug the gaps is laugahable. This funding announced last week by TM is just robbing Peter to pay Paul - its all existing funding jiggled about. None for Scotland, Wales or Cornwall I notice.

If you're concerned that the EU is run by unelected beaurocrats, then take a look at the House of Lords, the Civil Service, your local town hall, the quangos etc - all of those things will still be here after Brexit, if it happens.


And above all of this -- Brexiteers don't have problems. Their lives aren't remotely affected by the EU's machinations. They just want to make life worse for the rest of us. I hate every single one of the 17.4million and one day you will get your comeuppance.
Alexia
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 17.46

bilky asko wrote:
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 13.29
Alexia wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 18.04
barcode wrote:
Fri 22 Mar, 2019 10.26
Then your a very foolish person.. and most leave people don't care for that march.
There will be 1 million people on the streets of London tomorrow demanding a PV or revocation. Meanwhile there's 50 geriatrics and 50 dead bodies on the A1.
Current figure: "tens of thousands". I don't even think the organisers' spurious figures would put it at a million.
Only if you believe the BBC, who have a vested interest in keeping May happy.
Alexia
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

Sat 23 Mar, 2019 17.47

barcode wrote:
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 14.29
The bigotry is breathtaking, there is no point continuing with you

If you don't want to be judged harshly, stop doing things like this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47678275
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