Brexit

What's next?

Theresa May's Deal
8
18%
No deal
12
27%
People's vote
22
49%
Something else (pls specify)
3
7%
 
Total votes: 45
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Nick Harvey
God
Posts: 4027
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 22.26
Location: Deepest Wiltshire
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Surely you all know by now that there's no point in asking me.

I'm a confirmed Moggy.
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Pete
Posts: 7234
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 13.36
Location: Dundee

Nick Harvey wrote: Tue 20 Nov, 2018 22.43 Surely you all know by now that there's no point in asking me.

I'm a confirmed Moggy.
Out of curiosity, aside from your alignment on Brexit, do you feel Mogg is a credible politician? Or do you feel he's just a means to an end?
"He has to be larger than bacon"
Alexia
Posts: 2974
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

There *are* no credible politicians.
barcode
Posts: 1473
Joined: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 19.36

cwathen wrote: Tue 20 Nov, 2018 20.47
Labour could have won the 2017 general election on the back of a pledge to stop Brexit. But Corbyn made no such offer because he doesn't believe in stopping it.
That is a very misguide rule and could have in fact resulted in Labour losing another 30 odd seats to the Tories. Labour lost six seats at the election all were Big leave areas, and places that haven't voted tory in donkey years, probably as long as Canterbury has been tory.

What is annoying is Leave people think remoaner are basterds, while remainers think Leave people are racist gits which isn't true for a good number of us..

But this whole brexit thing is a complete and utter mess and I dont want those tory elite versions of brexit, thank you.. Boris is muppet, and gove is Devious
scottishtv
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu 01 Apr, 2004 15.36
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Critique wrote: Tue 20 Nov, 2018 21.12We're certainly wasting time discussing May's draft deal at the moment because it'll never get voted through/accepted by a majority of people, but as cwathen says it's unlikely that anyone else could actually put something more agreeable on the table.
I'm not picking on Critique, but I find it quite interesting that this is being labelled "May's deal" across the media. It's a draft agreement between the EU and the UK, and although some countries in the EU are upset (France and Spain see it as too generous to the UK!), this has been negotiated with them and their side is in no mood to re-open the negotiations, as is - it would seem - the UK Government.

Dominic Rabb was utterly cringe-worthy at the weekend saying he would go in at this late stage, and simply state to the EU "We're the United Kingdom here, let's be serious"... Is that all he's got? Corbyn likewise stated on Sky News he would pretty much do the same thing "Our parliament doesn't like this, let's do better." It's breathtaking arrogance, they are outsiders with no leverage. Corbyn even stated he would negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during the transition period, but the transition period would only ever happen as a result of an agreed Withdrawal Agreement being in place. Crikey, if he doesn't understand something as simple as that....

I see Nicola Sturgeon is deploying some cynical "coalition building" tactics, presenting herself as being a credible 'helper'. She knows fine well she can't build support for her preference of staying in the single market and customs union. This will become apparent soon, at which point I expect the SNP will yet again declare that they have been ignored and "disrespected" by Westminster.

Even if the coalition parties could rabble together some form of wording, who are they going to take it to? Who will they be negotiating with? No-one. They have no leverage with the EU either. The only way to reach a deal with the EU is for the Government to do it, and both sides now consider the negotiations pretty much concluded. Why would the EU agree to re-open talks? Because the ERG is upset?!

That's why I think this deal might actually pass at some point. Maybe it'll get voted down first time, be revised a little - but not much - and somehow make it through at the 11th hour. Voting against, abstaining, or posturing from the other parties at a very late stage would be hugely risky, and I actually don't think the opposition parties would really 'enable' a no-deal scenario. They would surely be too scared of a public backlash?

Maybe I'm wrong. After all, Corbyn seems like the sort of guy who would let economic carnage happen just so he could get another go at a general election.

Finally, I'm surprised the poll shows a People's Vote doing so well. I don't think the Conservatives or Labour will become favourable towards another referendum taking place on this at all.
Alexia
Posts: 2974
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

barcode wrote: Wed 21 Nov, 2018 16.17
cwathen wrote: Tue 20 Nov, 2018 20.47
Labour could have won the 2017 general election on the back of a pledge to stop Brexit. But Corbyn made no such offer because he doesn't believe in stopping it.
That is a very misguide rule and could have in fact resulted in Labour losing another 30 odd seats to the Tories.

That was then. Most recent polling on Brexit done by C4 and Survation show all Labour constituents are now majority pro-Remain. If Labour positioned itself as pro-Remain / pro-PV, it would in all likelihood hoover up LibDem, Green and Tory-lite support and possibly stray into majority govt territory.
james2001
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 23.10

My sister and 15 of her colleagues just lost their jobs today as a result of brexit and her employer losing their EU funding. So that should help tell you what I think about this.
all new Phil
Posts: 1649
Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

That we should remain in the EU to keep 16 people in a job?
Thought this was a nice forum, clearly not.
james2001
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 23.10

Theres going to be a hell of a lot more than 16 jobs lost as a result of brexit, which I'm sure you know. I'm sure you're alright, jack, though. As long as you've still got your job and your blue passport, who cares about other people, eh? Maybe you need to remember that real people are being affected by this, and affected badly, and unsympathetically sneering about it doesn't make you look good.
Alexia
Posts: 2974
Joined: Sat 01 Oct, 2005 17.50

james2001 wrote: Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.34 My sister and 15 of her colleagues just lost their jobs today as a result of brexit and her employer losing their EU funding. So that should help tell you what I think about this.
My sister in law has moved home to Sweden prematurely and my brother in law now faces a race against time to get a job out there so he can join her and spend the rest of her life with her. That indicates where I stand.

Also I don't want to queue in the non-EU queues at Arlanda airport when I visit them.
james2001
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 23.10

Alexia wrote: Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.58
james2001 wrote: Wed 21 Nov, 2018 22.34 My sister and 15 of her colleagues just lost their jobs today as a result of brexit and her employer losing their EU funding. So that should help tell you what I think about this.
My sister in law has moved home to Sweden prematurely and my brother in law now faces a race against time to get a job out there so he can join her and spend the rest of her life with her. That indicates where I stand.

Also I don't want to queue in the non-EU queues at Arlanda airport when I visit them.
Exactly. Is "sovreignety" or "taking back control" worth all these people whose livelihoods are going to be badly affected? However much brexiteers gripe about the EU, I doubt many of them would find their jobs or residency would have been at risk if it had been a vote to remain. It's not funny or something to sneerily dismiss, even if you think it's "only" 16 people or whatever.
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